The Skulls

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[00:00:31] Power, Privilege, and a handshake that opens doors. This week we're pledging our loyalty to The Skulls, where getting tapped might just cost you everything. Welcome to the No More Late Fees Podcast. I'm Jackie.

[00:00:57] And I'm Danielle and we're just two best friends and ex-blockbuster employees re-watching some of the best and worst movies of the late 90s and early 2000s. This week we're diving into The Skulls because guess what guys? It's Joshua Jackson Mayhem Month. I am ecstatic! That means all May, it's Joshua Jackson.

[00:01:25] All May for Danielle's man. Yeah! But before we dive in, let's get into some... If you love the podcast and you want to show us some support, here's a way you can. Ready to dive into an exclusive cinematic experience, Bestie?

[00:01:47] Gain access to movie-themed content, stickers, lives, and our handpicked Spotify playlist by joining our Patreon community at patreon.com slash nomorelatefees. So Danielle, let's kick off this JJ rodeo. What is The Skulls about? Well, at an elite Ivy League university where legacy means everything and connections are basically currency,

[00:02:13] Luke McNamara is a scrappy scholarship kid just trying to make it to the top without losing himself along the way. End of the Skulls. Pretty much 2026 that there are secret societies that they told us were a lie when this movie came out. That's what the Skulls are.

[00:02:35] So when Luke is tapped to join, it's all tailored suits, he's got money in his bank account, whispered promises of a future where doors magically open. That can't be bad, right? Yeah. The movie stars Paul Walker, Joshua Jackson. I'm going to start over because why is Paul Walker first? It's Joshua Jackson, man.

[00:03:02] The movie stars, of course, Joshua Jackson, Paul Walker, Leslie Bibb, and Hill Harper. Girl, I was floored when I realized Hill Harper was in this movie. I'll get into that later. The movie was directed by Rob Cohen, who was known for the Fast and the Furious, Triple X, and Stealth. So him and Paul Walker go together real bad. And it was written by John Pogue. I hope I said his name right.

[00:03:32] And you can currently watch it on Prime, Pluto TV, and the Roku channel. Let me tell you, I'm tired. Tired. Of what? Of these commercials. Oh. Watching these. Like, the movie is not even that long, but it feels like fucking forever because I got to watch commercials like basic cable all over again. Anywho, before we get started, let's get into our ratings rewind. So you know the drill.

[00:03:59] Before we get into the movie, we'll reveal the rating our Y2K versions of ourselves would give. Then at the end, we'll see if our current selves agree with our initial rating. Our scale consists of would buy it, would buy it again. The best would plan repeat. Five day rental. Would watch again. Two day rental. Ah, it's okay, but it's nothing to write home about. And same day rental. Gabbage. Okay?

[00:04:28] Straight up trash. So Danielle, what was your Y2K rating of the Skulls? Oh, I don't own it. I don't think I ever owned it. You know, like, it's got Joshua Jackson in it. So it's got to be somewhere between like a two day and a five day. It's just... I'm going to say it's a five day because I did love a conspiracy theory. You did.

[00:04:59] You do. I don't know what this past tense was. You're right. You're right. Good call. And what about you? I definitely own this. It wasn't something that I watched often, but it was definitely in my Y2K collection. All right. Let's see what the box office says. I'm very intrigued about this. This is... Okay. So this movie had a budget of $35 million.

[00:05:28] That's wild. Um... And it made $50.8 million worldwide. Most of that had to have gone to salaries. Some.

[00:06:08] Branding irons. Yeah. I think it was a lot of props. Merch. So this movie came out March 31st, 2000. And let's see what the box office... Who was in the leader? It was number one, Erin Brockovich. Number two, The Road to El Dorado. And it came at the third spot. Romeo Must Die was at number four.

[00:06:38] And High Fidelity at number five. Ugh. To go back to the movie theater at this time. So it was a modest success. But it still led to two direct-to-video sequels. Who the hell was in those? Oh, uh... You look those up, Willis. Yeah, let me... I'm gonna go into, um... What Lil Raj had to say. Lil Raj gave this movie one out of four stars

[00:07:08] and described it as... So ludicrous, it achieves a kind of forlorn grandeur. I bet he's in one of those secret societies. He has to be with all of these erratic ratings of movies. The Los Angeles Times criticized its originality, saying it had one pinky toe bone of surprise. That's a good one.

[00:07:39] Okay. Okay. Let's see. Are you ready for... I'm ready. Okay. Um, so Skulls 2, Robin Dunn, Nathan West? Oh, I know these names. Hold on. Okay. Nathan West looks like he was in LFO. I don't think he was. Nathan West, was he in Bring It On? Jan?

[00:08:08] Yes! He was Jan! Yeah. Aaron Ashmore was in it? Yeah. Uh, I was... Robin Dunn was in the, um, Cruel Intentions sequel. Well, it was, like, supposed to be a TV show, and then they made it into some... Actually, it's not a sequel. I was corrected on TikTok the other day. It's a prequel, so... Um, I was not... In my youth, I was not mad at Cruel Intentions 2.

[00:08:39] Because it had D from... Divine from Drive Me Crazy in it. Okay. Skulls 3. Let's look and see. Okay. Oh, they flip... It looks like they flipped the script, and there is a female lead. Oh. Are there secret societies for the females? I'm sure. Interesting. Okay, so the guy from Popular is one of the leads. And I've seen this girl before. Oh!

[00:09:08] It's Claire Kramer from... Bring it on! Bring it on! Mary Bostick? Bostwick was in the third? This is wild casting, I'm telling you. Yeah. Before we get into cast and crew, let's hear a message from our pod pals. The box office hits the undeniable masterpieces, the movies everyone can quote by heart.

[00:09:38] We aren't talking about those. Welcome to Forgotten Film Club, where we bypass the front row blockbusters to dig through the cinematic attic. We are dusting off the VHS tapes, time left behind, unearthing the brilliant failures, and shining a spotlight on the hidden gems that slip through the cracks of pop culture. We watch them, we break them down, and we figure out why they were forgotten in the first place. I'm your host, Sarah, and my co-hosts, John and Cameron,

[00:10:06] and I are saving a seat for you because every movie deserves a second screening. Subscribe to Forgotten Film Club wherever you get your podcasts. You can find us on Instagram at Forgotten Film Club or visit us at ForgottenFilmClub.com. You're yawning, I'm hiccuping, let's get it together, ladies. This is bad. So, fun facts, few and far between

[00:10:35] for this prestigious film. The only cast and crew I have is this was Malin Ackerman's debut. I don't even know where she was. I do. I remember as soon as I saw her on screen, I was like, what is that Leo Mew? I can't whistle. But he's pointing at the screen. That's what I did, essentially. She is randomly in a scene with Paul Walker.

[00:11:04] I think he's on the phone with Joshua Jackson. What are their characters' names? Because I don't want to... Dean, Caleb, and Luke. Oh, there is no Dean. Who the hell is Dean? Who the hell is Dean? Who the hell is Kathy? Only a select few will understand that joke. I know Simone is laughing right now. And Stephanie.

[00:11:33] But yeah, so Caleb, he's on the phone with Luke and there's randomly this blonde girl sitting in a seat next to him. No lines, not really doing much. But I was like, oh my God, there she is. I was hoping to see her again, but we don't ever see her after that scene. And like you said, Paul Walker, I'm sure he was tapped from being like Fast and the... Well, which came out first? Fast and the Furious? I think Fast and the Furious came... I don't know. I'm not going to even guess.

[00:12:03] So you tell me. Okay. June 27th. Oh, so this was first. So maybe the skulls led to... No. I think he was in talks with Fast and the Furious first. It just got made first. Because when we were doing... When I was doing notes for Fast and the Furious,

[00:12:33] I could... I watched some videos of him talking about how he really wanted to do that movie. I think he had initially saw it in the trades. It's... Got it. Yeah. So I do think that started, but this came into development first. But hey, if I'm wrong, hit us up at Quick Drop. Marley, let us know. Yeah. So let's start. Let's start with a little...

[00:13:04] Tight. Isn't... Isn't the vote race is called skulling? Hold on. Let me... What'd you say? Yes. Oh, no. Two oars. Okay. Skulling is two oars. They were only using one oar. You mean the boat? Yeah, the boats.

[00:13:34] What about it? So skulling... I thought they were doing like a play on words because skulling is competitive rowing where athletes use two oars, one in each hand to propel boats in singles, doubles, or quads. They were only using one oar per person. So I guess it's not technically skulling. I thought it was named at the movies called Skulls because of the Skull and Bones Society. It was, but I was saying it would have been

[00:14:04] an interesting play on words that he was a sculler and then invited to the skull. Stop bringing these white people names in here. I never heard of this damn skulling in my life. It's our culture, didn't you? I'll let you know where I'm start. You're right. Let me not. I mean, it's not my culture. You couldn't catch me dead on a boat rowing. I didn't know what the word was. I never heard of it in my life. I watched the Olympics. Oh, that's true. You do.

[00:14:35] So where do we start? So he's doing his practice for his rowing. Oh. And then we see him. Okay, so he's doing his practice and then we see him. He's working in the cafeteria. Right. And people are kind of like giving him shit like me my oatmeal. And then this is also where we're introduced to the real hero of this movie. Leslie Bibb's character.

[00:15:04] I just want to say that when I think about it, Joshua Jackson plays working class a lot. He does. Because even like Charlie in The Mighty Ducks in this movie and then I'm Pacey on Dawson's Creek. So like he's got that down pretty pretty well. Yeah. So we're so yeah. He introduced we're introduced to Chloe

[00:15:34] played by Leslie Bibb. I the best acting in this movie. I really liked her character. It's not much to choose from. I'll say that. Yeah. As for the caliber of acting it's weird because it's like you have all these people in this movie that you know that you've seen them do actually pretty decent work. Yeah.

[00:16:04] You know? Um I am gonna say The very men's felt like phoning it in for a lot of them. Yeah. I mean but except for Paul Walker because I don't think he ever was not phoning it in or like I don't even want to say phoning it in. He just he plays the same. Yeah. He did his best but Paul Walker we have established is just he has a lane and that's where he lives and he really

[00:16:34] doesn't detour from it. Yeah. At times I feel like he oh it's almost like he studied at the Keanu Reeves school of acting but Keanu Reeves has more range. He did not graduate at the top of his class. He only went to one class. And that was the surfer dude cadence of his voice.

[00:17:04] Yeah. He lives. I do think his best acting was in The Fast and Furious and maybe as we continue this podcast we'll watch some movies that I missed but we could be uncorrected but so far this role felt like Dean from She's All That went to college. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. I'm glad we were on the same page about that. Dean! I found a Dean! Oh yeah. Okay.

[00:17:34] Now it's adding up. Your brain made some connections. I found that in the archives way way back. So yeah it's very much established because we see I almost called him Charlie. We see Luke like checking his bank account and he's getting like these statements from the school and he's like he has conversations about how he has to take out student loans and he's going to start his career

[00:18:03] hundreds of thousand dollars in debt. Right. Because he wants to go to law school after he's out of this Ivy League school. I as soon as I saw how much like his school and stuff was going to cost I said I know Jackie is looking up what the inflation rate on that is. Actually I didn't. You didn't? Let me do that now. I'm shooketh because I was like oh my girl's pulling out the calculator. I know it. To be fair side note I was I watched this in like 10 minute

[00:18:33] increments as DeeDee was like barking orders to me of things to do. So I did not have that luxury but I will look it up right now. While you're looking that up so we see that he is a hard worker. He's got multiple jobs or whatever. I don't even know if I'm going in order because I believe that he at some point he's riding a bike and he runs into his friends from the old neighborhood and so I'm

[00:19:03] like assuming this is supposed to be taking place in Boston. But I'm not sure. No one has an accent. Yeah no one has an accent. Okay I'm going to ask a really dumb question. Where is Yale? I don't think that's dumb. I think Yale's in Connecticut. Or no Princeton is in Connecticut. Let me ask. Hold on. And Yale is in New Jersey? Connecticut. You're right. Oh look at that. So Princeton must be in New Jersey.

[00:19:34] So this is let me find my fun facts. Yes. Because this is based on a society called the Skull and Bone Society which is related to Yale or something. Related to Yale? Yeah. Yeah. Well I would whichever one George W is in

[00:20:03] I feel like that's what this is. Yes. Confirmed Skull and Bones Yale. Founded in 1832. Who's Alfonso Taft? Anyway he was one of the founders. So yeah this very much taps in and there are references to Yale without ever calling it Yale by name. So like at the boat race

[00:20:33] every team is mentioned by its school name except for the Bulldogs which is the Yale team. Characters wear white on their sports uniforms. Skulls are said to have 322 alumni worldwide. Skull and Bones uses the number 322 as an identifier on many of its symbols. So there are a lot of references to Yale without explicitly stating that. I wonder how mad

[00:21:03] they were about this movie. Let's ask Google. Oh before I ask Google that. $100,000 in 2000 is approximately $191 $192,000 today. From what was the original amount? $100,000. Oh, okay. I just thought it was going to be a bigger gap. Well, it's almost doubled.

[00:21:34] Oh, yeah, that's true. I don't know. I just thought it was going to be like $40,000 to a million because I just feel like that's how bad it's been. So, yeah, he's riding his bike because he's got to go row, row, row the boat and he's late. He's late for a crew. Is that what it is? Yes. Okay. And he's having this full-on conversation with his old friends

[00:22:03] because apparently I guess he's abandoned them to be at school. But he's about to graduate. So it's been four years. Y'all are still mad. Your boy is getting money. And they're just jacking cars. But it kind of alludes to he was in that clip. He knows how to do some things. Yeah, 100%. So then he gets there and then he gets on the boat and they're about to race. He was late but he made it on

[00:22:33] time. I mean he made it just in time. And other people are watching from their cars or from the stands. I don't know. So we're seeing two guys have this conversation where it looks like they're vetting new people. So at first glance it looks like it could be like a fraternity if you don't have any idea that this movie is about a secret society. And at some point during the race we see,

[00:23:05] I just want to call him Paul, you see Caleb pull up in his car with a bunch of girls in the car to watch as well. The one thing that just shook me is because I did not know Hill Harper was in this movie. Was his acting great? Not at all. Was I very annoyed that the black man died? Yes. Yep. But I also was like, why are you doing stupid shit? And we'll get to that. Yeah. We'll get to that. And we

[00:23:35] see, and let me find his name. So Hill Harper plays Will. Will. And it seems like Will and Luke have been friends for a very long time. Yeah. And Will is part of the crew team as well. He's the caller. Motivation speaker. Ken's like, that's not how you do that because apparently Ken knows how his culture. Yeah. And he's like, usually it's like,

[00:24:06] according to again, like, it's like a rhythm like, or you're going row, like keeping a beat. So I'm not wrong that it's row, row, row your boat. But I don't think that's what they're singing. And then at one point, and this is where like the the skull society's interest is peaked is because Luke is, I guess, the team captain.

[00:24:35] And so someone's oar breaks and so he has to time it where like they bail. And then you're because I was like, well, isn't that cheating? Because now their boat weighs less and Ken's like, but you have less manpower rowing. And so the bulldogs pull it out with one less man is the gist of that scene. I think

[00:25:05] also like for the novices to this sport, they have these characters actually giving play-by-plays about what's happening so you understand the significance because I was like, why did have that man jump in the water? Yeah. You know? So, and they also give history that like, that Luke has won, brought them like championships for the last few years

[00:25:34] and that no one's ever come back from having less people in the boat and all the stuff. so it's really to cement why the skulls would pick someone like him. We've already, we're also seeing that he obviously has good grades. He's very smart. Yes. Why he's there. While on the flip side, we start to learn that Caleb is a legacy student. He likes to party. He likes to be in the gym and it shows. He just

[00:26:03] is boxing. Paul Walker, all the smoke that he deserves to get even in death. But I can't deny the man looked real good without his shirt on. He was giving roided out Barry. No, there's a difference. There's a difference. But I could have but I'm glad you brought that up because I could have seen

[00:26:33] Ryan Philippe in this role. Yeah, definitely. I think they could have been exchanged out. Yeah, especially because like Cruel Intentions, the Sebastian character was very. He would have been better. Yeah. Adjacent. Yeah. But we see that Caleb is actually like a decent person. Yeah. Yeah. Which we'll get to that in a few in a bit. But like you said,

[00:27:04] he's captain of the crew team. His success is earned. Like everything that he hasn't been handed anything in juxtaposition to Caleb where like you said, he's a legacy. His dad attended the college and then we find out is also a skull. Luke's

[00:27:33] relationship with Chloe is odd. So Chloe, Will, and Luke are all very close. But in the scene where like after they go, after they win and they're doing like they're drinking the out of the cup or whatever, which I know they didn't wash first, but that's not a point. he's looking at Chloe from a far away and Will is kind of like talking about shoot your shot, why don't you do it? And he's like, oh, she doesn't want someone like me because we

[00:28:03] do learn that Chloe is from the same kind of society that Caleb is from essentially. And so in that scene I was confused because it made it seem like she was just like this cool girl that he only saw when she was serving her or like from afar and then we get to the next scene and that's when we find out that they're like BFFs and eating pizza. I'm like, I'm very confused. That's not the vibe it was giving. I have the same thought because like

[00:28:33] even in the line in the food line he's just like, oh, your usual blah, blah, blah. Like, it's not like how you would greet a friend, a close friend that like you spend a lot of time with. Right. You know, yeah, so that was kind of weird. But, um, and Will has an inkling that Luke is going to be

[00:29:02] tapped for the skulls. Right. So here's the thing. I kind of feel like Will ran his mouth, not Will, Luke ran his mouth too much about wanting to be, and maybe it's because he just didn't see a possibility of him being tapped. Yeah. But he did like a horrible job about hiding it because I just know in these kind of situations you're really not supposed to let anybody have any kind of inkling. And I feel like they would

[00:29:32] have did it differently so that other people would have, like, it was just so obvious. Right. And that caused all the problems because he couldn't keep his mouth shut about it. And his friend, I don't know if it's just that his friend was like a journalist and was curious or was jealous. Yeah, that was unclear as well. Yeah. It wasn't like, hey, are you tapped? Like, is this my in? Or is it like, because he did exhibit

[00:30:02] signs of jealousy. Like, he's like, you're going to spend all your time with them now and not with us. Like, he was saying things that alluded to just the jealousy piece, but then also and like, you don't really even know at first that he's a journalist. Right. Because when Luke is tapped, also, I do think the initiation hazing phase is much better done in Veronica Mars. I thought about that

[00:30:31] season, season three of Veronica Mars so much watching this as well. Yeah. So, um, after, so Luke gets like, the invite and he has to follow like, all of like, secret phone calls and blah, blah, blah, leads him to a classroom and then it's like, drink me. And then, so, if you're drinking something, this really bothered me. So, he drinks the thing, like, obviously, you know, it's going to cause you to

[00:31:01] like, at least not remember what's going on. Right. He's still wandering around, stumbling around. I'm like, I would have immediately like, sat down because I don't want to fall and hit my head. I was just invited to this thing. Like, it really bothered me that he was just like, and then like, keels over. But you also don't dabble in the substances. Yeah, so. Yeah. But also at the

[00:31:30] same time, we see it's just the perspective of someone taking photos of him with a long lens. Like, so it led me to believe it was the skulls are already collecting shit on Luke to kind of hold over his head. Come to find out it was actually Will taking all of those photos as he's like, starting his initiation. Not me.

[00:32:00] Just learning this right now after watching the movie. And yeah, Luke has Will has all the photos in the envelope behind the false back of his book case. So Will was following Luke all along. So Will immediately knows that Luke has been tapped.

[00:32:29] Then we see like the initiation in the war room that's behind me. It says war. I was like, this is real aggressive. As soon as you see, I'm like, war, Jesus. And then when questioned, when he asked, what is his name, Ames, about why is there war? He's just like, there's what do you mean?

[00:33:01] You're all just privileged people running around about covering each other's asses. What war are we talking about? It's crazy, the dynamics. But also coffins? What are vampires? Like, so Ken happened to walk by during that scene and he goes, oh my god. He was just immediately over the

[00:33:30] movie at the site of like, because it's not even just the coffins. It's in like an area of the war room where it's water and then just like circles big enough to house a coffin and there's like enough for everyone like fucking wild. I just feel like if the thought process is like you're waking up out of these coffins because your old life is dead, I kind of feel like give me one of those

[00:34:00] pink and blue white blankets from the nursery at the hospital. That gives more of I'm born again. You know what I'm saying? Do you want to come out of a canal, like slide down a slide? Or like what they did with the matrix when you you just emerge from a womb? Yeah. But you know, we have different styles apparently. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:31] So after this, this is when we do they change clothes? No, right? Are they paired up? Yeah, somehow they get paired up. That was Oh no, they don't get paired up. Don't they have to go get the snake? Like, yeah, so they they are told they have to you have to steal another school's mascot. But then it was

[00:35:00] like it slithers, but it has no scales. You can see it's vein or something was like the riddle that they're given. And so they go somehow they know exactly where to go. And then they're like trying to figure out how to break in. And then they figure out it's the snake weather vein. I think they just know that these secret societies exist and where their houses are because they know like there's a part where Luke knows like he visually sees where

[00:35:30] the skulls reside because there's like again props again the skull is hanging from the building. So I think that's why they know where to go. For secret societies they're not very secretive. Not in the slightest. And a moat a motherfucking moat around your building. Like what what is happening? And like Caleb's trying to bust in and then Luke's like hold my beer.

[00:36:00] This is my specialty. I guess alluding back to his roots. Yeah. In my roots. In my roots. And so they climb to the top of the building. And okay so this weather vane is huge. Yeah. And metal. Right. And assuming because I mean it probably gets gusty up there like welded to the top and they're just like gently

[00:36:29] rocking it until they like unseat it. And then Caleb falls grabs onto the weather vane. So Luke is holding himself the heavy ass metal weather vane and Caleb with one hand. And he's like pull me up pull me up. Bruh. Jumping out of water. Like what are we even talking about? And then so obviously Luke can't sustain the

[00:36:59] weight and so everyone goes crashing into the moat. Oh shit. Sorry. that was the cat. Let me make sure we're still recording. Okay. And I was very worried that the weather vane was going to fall on one of them and impale them and then move you over before it starts. Well you know that wasn't going to happen. It was very scary. I thought

[00:37:28] because they were the only two that got the snake because I do not remember a thing about this movie that they were going to be the only ones who got to be in it. But surprise surprise that's not what happened. I'm trying to think. So I'm trying to think. I forgot when I said that the original skull and crossbones was established like the 1860s. Okay. So for 100, 140 years but you only have 322

[00:37:58] members but alive. Oh, that's true. because if you think about it. Yeah. Because I was like they're initiating quite a few people. Well, it's like a class of maybe 20, right? And it's only at this school. It's not like they have I don't think they have different satellites. Like at fraternities you

[00:38:28] have different I think it's just at this school and each year there's only a handful of people that you're putting on the roster. So yeah. Okay. I was just thinking too hard about it. Hold on. What is that? Mail. For me? The doctor will mail. Okay. So but they succeed. They figure out the riddle. They get the weather vane. I'm assuming they drag it back to the

[00:38:57] skulls. All the other guys who didn't do anything could have helped pick it up. I'm sure. And then is this where they get paired together as soulmates? Yeah. They go back to the war dungeon and they learn that they are now part of this elite thing and things happen real fast. Yeah. It's real crazy because I was just getting a weather vane and now you're branding me and putting a watch on top of it. Like crazy.

[00:39:27] I was like what are we doing? Infections. Right. Is there not another way? I'll get a tattoo before I get branded. Yeah. It's wild but it's not like there's fraternities that do that so hey. Well and wouldn't you think as a secret society that you don't want people to really know you belong to like something very visible and I get like the gist is like you're always supposed

[00:39:57] to wear your watch to cover it but like I it's right out on front street. I would never make it you know I don't wear a watch so I was like oh hell no. And first of all it just felt like the distance from where they branded them from where a watch would be was just off like who's wearing their watch that high up? Yeah. There was a lot of I had a lot of questions and then yes they get their soulmates and I would have

[00:40:27] liked them to actually say the things that each of them have to compliment each other I guess because Caleb is a dum-dum but has the money and the prestige while Luke is like the street smart like natural ability. thing. So right. But they get along pretty well pretty quickly and then we start to see some like backstory between

[00:40:56] Ames played by William Peterson who aka CSI daddy. Yes. I was like where have I seen him from and then it clicked. That and fear. Remember the movie fear? I do. And then Litton Mandrake that's his name. Craig T. Nelson's character. They are soulmates we find out but Ames is trying to

[00:41:26] like distance himself. Right. Because Litton is just like the worst. What would you think of what you would think of a typical like secret society member like using the power to his advantage and to blackmail people and Litton is seeking is it like going to be the senator? Yes. Yeah. Senate. And so he's doing everything in his power

[00:41:55] to achieve that. And then Ames is like Ames is not completely innocent. But Ames is more like let's use this to like get people like Luke into law school because we know that he will be a successful lawyer and then give back to the skulls type thing. Right. Hold on. Yeah.

[00:43:03] The fan was going on. It was making this weird noise and we're trying to figure out what it was. Yeah. But Ames also knows he has to play the game. Like he has to work within the parameters of the skulls. Like he can't completely rebel from it. Right. Because of the rules. So at the ceremony they get branded. They get a watch. They get a soulmate and they get a rule book and a key to get in. And it is very important that

[00:43:33] they read the rule book and that they don't lose their key. And immediately good old Caleb just boxed in. Well because they also all get really fancy cars. Right. I don't know if I got up to get a snack but I missed that. I was like okay but they got these little fancy cars and that same night Caleb's car gets broken into and he loses his book and

[00:44:03] his key and he doesn't tell his soulmate. I kind of feel like if he had told his soulmate maybe things might have gone a little bit differently. But he just pulls up on Luke later on and says hey I need to borrow your key I left mine or whatever. And so then you see Luke responsibly pull a chain off his neck to give it to him. And then he goes into the secret society with his key and that's

[00:44:31] when he finds Will inside the facility taking pictures. Now mind you before all this happened Will and Luke had gotten into a fight because Will is asking a bunch of questions and Luke is trying to say like look I can't say and also Chloe is kind of like not great with him as well. So he's got issues with his besties. But they also move him into New Dig so he has his own room in this other place so he's not Will's roommate at

[00:45:01] this point in time. So back at the facility Will is caught taking pictures. Him and Luke kind of go back and forth at it. Oh sorry right right right. Caleb and Will go back and forth. And it gets to a point where because we find out obviously that Will has was the one that broke into his car and stole his key and stuff like that. And Will only has

[00:45:31] the key on him because he's hidden the book in his room. Right. So Luke or Caleb's like I need my key in my book back and Will's like hey man like here's your key let's go I don't have the book with me let's go get it. And but then also like takes a picture of Caleb in the war room. And so Caleb is chasing Will. I don't think like he's just trying to break the camera. I don't think he has any intention of hurting him.

[00:46:01] And I just feel like regardless of how this went even if Caleb and him were able to go back to his room and get like the way that Will approaches all of this is just really dumb to like if you really are a journalist and you've been doing research and you know that this society has so deep roots into our government. everything. Yeah. And it's super corrupt. I would be way more careful. He looks like I

[00:46:30] mean even Veronica Myers wouldn't be this novice. Yeah. She would have backup at least. Right. So it just the way he approached it he was gonna get hurt regardless because even if he got his book back Caleb probably would have told his dad and they would have killed him. Yeah. And we forgot to mention like Caleb is extremely loyal to his dad. Everything he does is to please his dad. Right. And when his dad's acceptance.

[00:46:59] And so as soon as we see later on through security footage we see that um will Caleb yeah Caleb was chasing well they go up to the high part here that has no safety balconies um and uh will will accidentally falls off. Caleb does not push him he does not like he's just trying to break the camera get his key back.

[00:47:29] Um and so Caleb panics calls his dad is like because he thinks that he has killed will on right. He doesn't even check his pulse like Caleb he's just like uh daddy I got a problem. and his dad just tells him to leave. Yeah and so what we find out later from the security footage is Will was not actually dead like Caleb had assumed. Right. He was still

[00:47:59] alive and the wasn't was it the dean? It was it was um Martin played by Christopher McDonald's character. I the pro something I can't remember. Yes yeah um actually comes in they see that he's alive but that Will's alive and he like breaks his neck and kills him and then they stage Will's death as a suicide. Right because at like

[00:48:28] three in the morning Luke is still upset that they they've been fighting so he goes to his room to Will's room and finds him hanging and he puts it together pretty quickly that shit is awry but he also is not smart in his approach knowing exactly who these people are and he's trying to sneak around I'm like bro they've been watching you forever you think they're not watching you now like yeah give me a break so they catch on pretty pretty quickly that um he's up

[00:48:58] to no good because when the police it actually starts when the police come to question him we have detective sparrow played by steve harris and at first you're like oh he's playing a dick again but he turns out to not be so bad I guess um so he's questioning luke pretty hardcore about everything and um luke asking why luke was there at like three in the morning and he said like they had an argument or whatever

[00:49:28] um and chloe finds out because luke tells her pretty quickly like hey they they killed will essentially and she is flipping the fuck out and doesn't doesn't know how to keep herself calm i just have a feeling her daddy's in this too like but um so he's just trying to like dig to find out what happened to will he does go and he doesn't

[00:49:58] have i think he asked caleb what happened but and caleb is pretty much just like like don't ask questions you know like like you don't want to know answers type thing and so he's trying to do all this stuff he goes to his old friends to ask them for help eventually but i think before he asked his friends he's trying to like follow one of the guys who takes the tapes out um and the security tapes

[00:50:28] every night and find trying to find out where it goes and that's when caleb bum rushes his room finds all the bugs in the room and and he punches him and he's like you're so fucking stupid right now like yeah you don't think they're watching you you don't think they know everything that's going on you're highly surveilled at this point yeah and so that's when um luke realizes he needs more help to get access to these the video cameras to find out what happened to will and that's where

[00:50:57] he recruits his other friends he tells them that they can have his fancy car there is a scene before all this shenanigans started that him and chloe go on a date um did they or they it's not a date but they're hanging out together this is when he looks at his bank account and realizes that he has 20 thousand dollars in there and he's like i'm rich and so she's like you're a skull you're a skull and he's like well i can't say bitch i just saw your

[00:51:27] bank account i know where you come from right so now it's just will and not will luke and chloe now that will is dead and he's trying to get chloe to chill out and then he talks to ames about what he's found out and ames is kind of like i can't say shit but here's some directions no look in your look in

[00:51:57] your um your rule book you have yeah you have to follow the rule oh well ames tells because there's a whole thing so they they with luke's childhood friends and chloe they they format a plan to steal the tape of will's death from the war room um to give to sparrow and during that whole kerfuffle

[00:52:27] they capture luke sedate him and put him in a mental institution well yes so when he when they do they're able to steal the tape and they watch it and this is when they find out will wasn't killed by caleb yes and it was actually um martin lombard who does it then for some dumb reason yet again not understanding how this society works they go to the police

[00:52:56] station and bring the tape and say i have proof because at that point caleb was there giving a statement trying to pull put it that luke did it right um and so he brings a tape and somebody at the police station or we find out later sparrow sparrow did it yeah but like okay you have these friends that have like all of this like digital equipment like the first thing i would have

[00:53:26] been like is make copies hide them like where if one gets destroyed we're gonna have backups and backups right yeah i was surprised by that too but i guess they were trying to make it simple so after that they had already discussed because um luke was asking too many questions they had to have a vote and this is where another prop comes up board they're voting they have to vote in an um unanimous unanimously

[00:53:56] that um luke uh that luke would be kicked out not kicked out but they would put him in a mental institute and it's aims that votes against it and this is when the aims finds out that um what is his name linton has dirt on him about an affair he's been having so that gross which highly motivates him to be on

[00:54:25] luke's side so at the police station um they i don't know how they put him in the mental institute is it from the police station or is it something else that happens so i don't remember all i remember is they're in an alleyway they're all wearing like masks and

[00:54:55] they all get away but i think luke is caught no that's when they stole the tape i think it's when he's at the police station anywho he's in the he's in the institution and now chloe is left alone trying to figure out they are trying to chase her she goes to go actually speak to caleb she is the one who tells him that you didn't kill will by the way and so she tries to escape because they're trying to get her as well and she's

[00:55:24] able to be saved because ames pulls up and tells her hey i'll take you to see luke so they go to the the institution and like they're really asking a lot of my boy if you've been on those kind of medications you're not even able to walk she wouldn't need needed to take him on a wheelchair like you're fucked up at that point so ames gives her a car and she's able to take luke

[00:55:54] and try to escape but in the process they are chased down by um lombard martin lombard yeah and so they're being chased um like windy twisty turny roads she's being rammed like luke is still like waking up from his comatose state yeah um and then somehow like she gets pushed on railroad tracks so now

[00:56:24] she's driving on the railroad tracks still being chased um and she the tracks are closed and so she runs into like this pylon crashes the car somehow now luke is completely just lucid he's back baby yeah um and then uh what's his face sparrow comes and well shooter gavin gets out of the car and is about to kill

[00:56:53] the two of them and that's when sparrow shoot shows up and shoots him and kills right um because they i think they were trying to make it a car accident that's easier to like write off because they can't do another suicide um and that's when sparrow yeah like you said sparrow comes and he tells them to take the car that was chasing them and they go to a motel um and well a message that ames gave

[00:57:23] to chloe which was um live and die by the rules essentially and so that's the clue for for um to go into his rule book and figure out what he can do yeah and so then the next day we learned that the skulls are having like a party one thing we did miss is that before all this stuff goes down they have like this crazy party and they walk in all these girls and it's like they live in the life it's the picture behind me

[00:57:52] yeah so um and we also missed the part where after luke realizes like everything is bugged they're following everything he's doing in order to coordinate with chloe they go into his room he like turns music up really loud they go into the bathroom turn the shower on and they they're having a conversation and like essentially chloe proclaims her love uh for luke and then they like make out in the bathroom

[00:58:22] i think they're alluding that they did it in the bathroom i would assume so it seemed like a tight space yes we did miss that as well so now they they go together real bad um that's my new phrase this week i don't know why i've been saying that a lot um but now luke has found found a solution so he goes to the secret location where they're having some sort of ceremony they're all in their

[00:58:52] suits except luke he rolls up on them and was like hey um yeah we're gonna have a duel me and caleb and his daddy is real scared because he's like this boy's from the streets and my boy don't know how to shoot no guns which is crazy he's trying to like talk caleb up real bad like you're not gonna win he's a straight shooter blah blah blah and i'm like i'm

[00:59:21] taking luke in this uh battle but to our surprise luke puts down the gun and he's like nah homie we're cool you can make it just tell the police what happened because you didn't kill anybody yeah and then his daddy's like you don't be a pussy you better not like he is screaming all sorts of stuff at him and caleb is like i'm not trying to hear all that noise and pop pop shoots his daddy shocked

[00:59:51] well because his dad grabs a gun and is gonna shoot luke so caleb has a choice to make my soulmate on my daddy but before that happened um caleb goes to his dad and says tell me the truth did i kill will or was will still alive when i left and his dad's like i've never lied to you son he was dead and then that's when caleb

[01:00:21] like the veil falls the the dedicated loyalty to his dad and he's like oh like he's just fucking lying to me like he does everyone else stay lying stay lying craig t nelson so he goes pop pop pop and he's down and um luke is like it's all over and uh no actually caleb really has a downfall and tries to pew pew

[01:00:50] himself and luke rescues him and stops him nah we still soulmates for life and honestly i don't even know what happens after that the movie over oh i do i do i do i remember so then after that homeboy gets on some scooter boat and skeets to a lighthouse and finds chloe they make out and apparently that's it they're safe now i don't know

[01:01:20] oh no no he goes and talks to ames and he's like i'm done i'm out this life and he's like we could do great things together and he's like nah this place is crazy which i think you don't ever get out of those situations like you either live and die by the rules you know what i mean and i think i think the point was and i could be reaching here is that like the the elder skulls are now like hyper aware that like luke is smart

[01:01:49] enough to live and die by the rules but he's going to use them to his advantage so they better like watch out i doubt it i doubt 300 members who are like presidents and senators are gonna let some little piss squeak from uh who's about to graduate ruin their good time they would have had his ass killed for sure it might not be today but it might be tomorrow did you feel when they were at the lighthouse that it was like the

[01:02:19] beginning of the curve i was like oh we just jumped into another another universe i that did not come to mind i was just thinking what are they doing like why are they there romantical it was real weird stuff but yeah that is the skulls we did it there it is oh well let's see okay what other fun

[01:02:49] facts do we have so when the skull members are heading out to the island the castle in the background is singer castle on dark island the island that the skull and bone society owns is called deer island both are in the thousand island of the st lawrence river girl that's a lot of islands that's a lot of islands what's with there might be a lonely island it's an epstein island for sure

[01:03:18] okay hill harper's character will he plays luke's roommate um in the film but he's actually modeled after the director rob cohen's real life harvard roommate so he he about this life he might be in a secret society when you're here in your family uh so the screenplay like we just mentioned was written by john uh or that that we mentioned earlier was written by john pogue who later

[01:03:48] worked on films such as roller ball and u.s marshals that's that's that's some extremes right there right going from it wasn't ll cool j in roller ball yeah and then tommy lee jones and u.s marshals that movie was really good i'm sure it was it's in our time frame we'll get to both of those eventually eventually filming took place primarily in toronto not surprised

[01:04:18] for this time period um which was used to stand in for an ivy league campus and the skull and bone society actually gives out watches to each class of skulls though not necessarily with the whole branding ceremony and after the movie was filmed joshua jackson acquired one of the actual watches and gave it to the director rob cohen look it you got money um the characters are seen celebrating at a pizza parlor

[01:04:48] they refer to as mori's drinking from a big golden cup mori's is an actual place and the tradition with the song and the big golden cup is accurate however it's a formal restaurant not a pizza parlor and actual mori's cups are traditionally silver the new skulls are sent to raid snake and skeleton and there is a yale secret secret society called book and snake so they were just pulling pulling from

[01:05:17] all over all over connecticut fake ass hogwarts some campus shots seem to be purposely they seem to purposely mimic yale buildings there's a tower that looks like harkness tower and the dining hall looks like the one in say brook college okay before we go ahead and rate the how we feel about it now don't forget

[01:05:46] to send your thoughts and prayers no I'm just kidding just to send your thoughts to no more late fees on instagram facebook tiktok twitter youtube threads blue sky all the places okay jackie what is your today rating of the skulls you know for as much shit as we talked about it I wasn't mad at that like it was enjoyable enough to me I would say five day rental like I'm not gonna go and watch it a ton it's just not that type of movie to be in like heavy rotation

[01:06:15] but I wasn't mad at it like eye candy you got leslie bibb doing leslie bibb things you got shooter mcgavin and the dad from parenthood we're good um yeah csi daddy killed it as usual I would say it's a five day like like you said it I'm not gonna watch it over and over again but I don't have any like oh my god this was so hard to watch like I was able to get through it and it was enjoyable it was okay yeah

[01:06:45] um well if you have any feedback for us hit us up at our quick job 909-601-6653 you can call in and leave us a voicemail or you can text us at that number and you can be featured on a future episode and join us next week as Joshua Jackson mayhem month continues as we spill all the tea when we cover gossip gossip where one little rumor turns into a full-blown scandal faster than

[01:07:15] you can say did you hear what they said so I'm excited about that there's that one has a stack cast so it really does yeah and as always be kind and rewind wind you