The Broken Hearts Club

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[00:00:30] Arrowverse und Produz in countless hit television shows, Greg Berlanti made a heartfelt indie film about friendship, love, and chosen family. Back in 2000, he assembled a stacked cast for a movie that was quietly ahead of its time. Join us as we dive into The Broken Hearts Club, a romantic comedy.

[00:01:00] Welcome to the No More Late Fees Podcast. I'm Danielle. And I'm Jackie. And we're just two best friends and ex-blockbuster employees re-watching some of the best and worst movies from the late 90s and early 2000s. This week, to close out Pride Month, we're covering the 2000 indie dramedy The Broken Hearts Club. But before we dive in, let's get into some... Housekeeping!

[00:01:27] If you love the podcast and you want to support us, here's how you can... If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or a rating on Spotify. Reviews and ratings help more movie lovers find the show and keep the nostalgic party going. And speaking of reviews, we've got a new review, Jackie. Woo! And it's titled, Hilarious. Oh. Both Danielle and Jackie are great hosts.

[00:01:56] It feels like I'm in the room with them, just going off on tangents. Hilarious roast on each other. And so much more. It's a total nostalgic party. I want to party with these girls. Thank you. We are the ones for the party. This is from... JorahMass25. Thank you for your kind words. Thank you. All right, Jackie, what is Broken Hearts Club about? Right on time. Right?

[00:02:25] It's about a tight-knit group of gay friends in West Hollywood, navigating relationships, heartbreak, career struggles, and personal growth while leaning on one another through life's up and downs. Through softball games, dinner parties, and plenty of romantic misadventures, they discover the importance of friendship, community, and chosen family.

[00:02:47] It stars Timothy Olyphant, Zach Braff, Dean Cain, Andrew Keegan, Nia Long, Mary McCormack, Matt McGrath, Billy Porter, Justin Theroux, Ben Weber, and John Mahoney. It was written and directed by Greg Berlanti, and you can currently watch it on TV. But before we start, let's get into our ratings rewind. So, you know the drill. Before we get into the movie, we'll reveal the rating our Y2K selves would give,

[00:03:14] and then at the end, we'll see if our current selves agree with our initial rating. Our scale consists of... Would buy it, would buy it again. The best, would play it on repeat. Five-day rental. Would watch again. Two-day rental. Eh, it's okay, but nothing to write home about. And same-day rental. Trash. Straight-up garbage. Okay, Jackie, what's your Y2K rating? Surprisingly, I have never seen this movie.

[00:03:45] Yeah, I really thought I did. I just remember seeing The Box a lot, because so many people were in it. I just, I never watched it. So, both never scenes. Okay, we'll see how this goes. Box Office. This movie came out October 20th, 2000. It had a budget of a million dollars. It made two million dollars, so it was on the up and up. The weekend, well, the weekend box office for this movie,

[00:04:13] at number one was Meet the Parents. Number two, Remember the Titans. Number three, The Contender. Spelled it, Co-tender. Co-tender. Number four, Bring It On. And number five, What Lies Beneath. So, we've done three out of five so far on this list. But, of course, this movie was nowhere to be seen, because it's an indie flick. It's very rare that it's going to make the top five.

[00:04:39] It did premiere at Sundance in January of that year, 2000. Little Raj gave the film three stars out of four, praising the film's positivity and the ordinariness of its characters. And when they talk about, and what they talk about, Ebert noted that instead of angst, Freudian analysis, despair, and self-hate,

[00:05:05] the new generation sounds like the cast of a sitcom, trading laughs, lines, and fuzzy truisms. Lisa Schwarzbaum from Entertainment Weekly called it a majority-oriented movie that assumes sophisticated familiarity with a sexual minority. Okay, Lisa. And Jamie Bernard from the Daily News commented, It's the first mainstream gay movie that feels totally comfortable in its shoes.

[00:05:33] We'll get into all that. Yeah. Well, before we get into the cast and crew, let's hear a message from our pod pals. Hi, listeners. It's Mark from the Release Date Rewind podcast, now on the Straw Hut Media Network. On each episode of my show, I invite a different friend or two to take a trip down memory lane with me and re-watch movies we love.

[00:06:03] And occasionally, TV shows too. All genres, big budget, low budget, award winners, cult classics, everything. And we're not just talking about any random movie. We nerd out about movies that are celebrating milestone anniversaries of release. So think the big ones like 20th anniversary, 25th, 30th, 40th, 50th, and so on. Learn some trivia and get nostalgic with us while listening to Release Date Rewind wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:06:29] Okay, so casting crew. So Greg Berlanti, by the way, is one of my all-time favorite ever TV person. I mean, banger after banger after banger.

[00:06:55] I don't know if there's a show that he has been a part of that I don't like. So I think the first time I knew who he was was because he ended up being the showrunner for Dawson's Creek. And then he did Everwood. He created Everwood. And then Brothers and Sisters, he was behind. And then at some point, I don't like, he's a magnificent, like, writer and creator.

[00:07:26] But I just for some reason said, does this man have dirt on somebody? How he got the keys to the CW completely. Like, at one point, this man, like, it was called the CW Network, but it really could have been called Greg Berlanti shows. Like, I cannot overstate that. Like, I'm going to read you some of the things that he has created.

[00:07:54] And you're going to be shocked because just so much. So like I said, Dawson's Creek. Another one was Jack and Bobby. That one was only for a season and it got canceled. And then Everwood, Dirty Sexy Money. I really liked that one. It was on ABC. Got canceled. Eli Stone. There was another. Is that the one with Johnny Lee Miller? Yes. Where he hears things in his head. Yes. And it's funny because there was another show that I used to love on NBC. Had two seasons and it got canceled.

[00:08:24] It was like a Glee adjacent, but someone made a really good point. That it literally was like stolen from Eli Stone. And I was like, oh my God, that's true. Like I said, brothers and sisters, he did something for the cartoon for Green Lantern. And then he produced the horrible dog shit that is Green Lantern that Ryan Reynolds. So he has one miss. That's okay.

[00:08:49] But maybe that's his introduction to Warner Brothers because he is a huge comic book fan. Like you could even hear him talk about it in the movie. Like they talk about Aquaman at one point. So then he gets Arrow. And from Arrow, he's able to create what they call the Arrowverse. Where they start with him on Green Arrow. Then they do The Flash. Then they do Batgirl. Legends of Tomorrow.

[00:09:19] And eventually they do a Superman show, I think. But like, yeah, he had massive, massive amounts of shows on the CW at the same time. And like a ton of... He did some shows on like NBC and stuff like that at the same time. Black Lightning. Legends of Tomorrow. Stargirl. So I think I said everything. The man is like a TV genius.

[00:09:49] But what I do love is that he makes... He has made some really good quality Black shows as well. He produced All-American. There's a show called Found, which by the way has had Mark Paul Gosselaar on it as like this horrible serial killer person. He doesn't get enough praise. Okay, I'm off to tangents. Sorry. But I just was really excited about how many shows he's done. And I really do like his shows. If so, if you...

[00:10:19] You should go check it out. Have you watched any of those shows that I named? Anything that he's done? Let me go back through the list. Hold on. I think this is the fundamental difference between our takes and the same. I did watch Eli Stone. I remember watching Eli Stone. I feel like you might not like his stuff because one, you're not like massively into superhero stuff. But also he does a lot of like the melodrama stuff. And I don't...

[00:10:49] I know you don't really fuck with that. He produced Free Guy. I watched that. I did enjoy that. I heard Dead Boy Detectives was good. I need to watch that. And Doom Patrol was really good. Even if you don't like superhero stuff, it was where... Like when Brendan Fraser was having his comeback. Yeah. That one was really good. I have Doom Patrol on my to watch list. Oh, okay.

[00:11:17] He produced Red, White, and Royal Blue. I love the book. The movie was good. Yeah. They're making the second one right now. Let's see. And that's it. I think there's some... I'll look through this list and say there's some stuff that I think you could watch. And Dawson's Creek. You were never watching. I was watching that religiously in school when we were in school.

[00:11:47] I feel like I probably watched the first season, maybe into the second season. I remember my mom watching it a lot. Yeah. I don't recall you ever watching that. I watched it enough to get the gist. And then a couple of years ago, I'm like, oh, let me watch Dawson's Creek. I cannot get through even the first season. As soon as that teacher started sleeping with Pacey, I was like, I'm out. Like, I can't. It's weird because I haven't gone back to watch the first season in a really long time.

[00:12:16] I always start when the show started for me officially. Officially. Which was when Pacey and Joey started. The will they, won't they. Yeah. Which started, I think, season three. They didn't really fully get together until season four. But that's season three. Banger. Fine shit. All right. Sorry. Cast the crew. What else? Greg Berlanti originally turned down the role of director.

[00:12:44] And he said in interviews that the studio offered the director position to him at least three times because they couldn't find the right director. By the fourth or fifth time they asked him, he accepted. And I believe they got their funding from the studio once they were able to cast John Mahoney and Timothy Olyphant. So that was like a secure. But I kind of feel like when I see this cast, I'm like, okay, this cast was crazy stacked.

[00:13:12] But I, I, we can't sit here and pretend that Hollywood at the time didn't look at pieces of media that featured gay characters as like not Oscar Emmy bait kind of thing. Right. I, I do feel like a lot of straight actors were trying to go after those roles because I think from what I can tell, there's only one openly gay man in this movie.

[00:13:41] Billy Porter. Which is Billy Porter. But I was just like, I just thought it was like odd that it couldn't have been a mix. Especially because, okay, here we go. So Dean Cain took the role against the wishes of his, wishes of his agents who I cautioned him against playing a gay character.

[00:14:03] What we know Dean Cain to be now, that is the only logical explanation for him taking the role is like Oscar bait. Like, I, I, I don't even know if it was Oscar, but just like to stretch like his acting skills and what people knew him to be.

[00:14:27] But his character was very much similar to his other characters. He was like the typical guy guy. I don't know what the gay terminology for his persona. But it, it wasn't giving like he did anything different than he did with his other roles, except. Yeah. And I don't know if he kissed anybody. Like, I don't think they showed him.

[00:14:55] They only showed that other actor man going down on him. That was, that was it. Yeah. So how much of a stretch this was? Yeah. I don't know. I was like, oh, I really hate that he's in this movie. Let me tell you, young me loved her some Dean Cain. I love the adventures of Superman on ABC. Is that what it was? Yes, you're right.

[00:15:23] And to find out both stars of the show were horrible people broke my heart. I know. Like Dean Cain being a full on horrible, horrible person. Yeah. Tragic. Cause fine as hell. Agreed. Yeah. And what hurts even more is that he's, he's mixed.

[00:15:49] Like, sir, the self-hating, the call is coming from in the house. Yeah. Oh, Dean. Well, Billy Porter, who we had mentioned earlier, was the least known of the actors cast at the time. And he won the role of Taylor when he imbued the character with heart and something real in his audition. Mm-hmm. It felt like he was just being Billy Porter. Yeah.

[00:16:19] Which is fine. Like, I, I like his personality. Right. So I'm good with it. But like, let's not pretend he was going in and giving him the performance of his lifetime here. But I do feel like the writing wasn't completely authentic to like how he would talk. I feel like he put his parts in it. Yes. But it did very much give somebody else.

[00:16:46] Like, it just didn't feel like him. Yeah. If that makes sense. So I can't say he was fully himself. Yeah. And then the film also includes cameos from Kurt Kersmith, who knew Berlanti as the showrunner on Dawson's Creek and enjoyed the script so much he has to be a part of the film. Jennifer Coolidge was cast as the hairdresser Betty, to whom all the guys, with the exception of Howie, go to for hair therapy.

[00:17:12] And then lastly, David Downs, who played the unspoken therapist role, was hired due to the fact he was a cinema teacher to the director. Okay. I do have to correct myself. It turns out that Matt McGrath is an openly gay man. So. Two. Unless Ben Weber is two. Let me just fact check one more last person. Oh, you mean Skipper from Sex and the City? Yeah.

[00:17:42] All I could see when I watched this movie. While you check it out, I'm going to grab my drink home in. Okay. Okay. No. He is not gay. Okay. So. Just Matt and Billy Porter. That. Out of the main characters, at least. I just wanted to, you know, not disparagingly say incorrect information.

[00:18:07] I do want to say that I could see this movie being better as a TV show. Agreed. It felt, because it was an ensemble cast, it felt like we only got, like, little tidbits of everyone. Everyone. Except for Dennis, played by Timothy Oliphant. Like, everyone. Like, I wanted to know about Benji. I think that's. Is that Zach Braff's character?

[00:18:38] Oh. Let me. It felt like he came in on day one, like, hey guys, I got into character. I bleached my hair. I'm wearing a muscle tee. And I did read that, like, a lot of the cast members showed up with, like, necklaces. Yes. And they're like, this is important to my character. Like, some puka shells is going to make you gay.

[00:19:08] They said they felt what their characters needed was necklaces. Just because you wear a necklace. And the fact that they didn't even go to wardrobe. Like, they bought their own and brought them to set. I just wonder what, like, Greg thought. Was he like, yes. Perfect. Or was he like, okay. Oh, man.

[00:19:38] Very, very interesting. Interesting. So, the movie. So, Dennis is our central character. Played by Timothy Olyphant. And it's. We're mainly hearing his narration in the beginning. So, it does. It doesn't feel like they were like, let's do sex in the city. But. I know it was before sex in the city. But it felt like. An LA version. With gay men.

[00:20:07] Because it wasn't giving the L word. And not the L word. What was the. The L word was the. The spin off. The lesbian one. It was after sex in the city came out. It was? Sex in the city came out in 98. Oh, okay. So, then yes. It was very much giving. Let me start. It was giving. Like. Sex in the city. Yeah. Sex in West Hollywood. Yeah. That's the city.

[00:20:36] Sex in the city. West Hollywood. 100%. But, yeah. We had. Like, every time I turned. You know, I almost melted. Because there were so many soap opera stars in this fucking movie. And I was like. Oh, were there? But I knew you wouldn't know who they were. So good. I had. Skipper. Timothy Oliphant. Of course.

[00:21:06] Dean Cain. Of course. Zach Braff. Of course. Then I had. Skipper. I had. Jennifer Coolidge. Popped up. I had. Billy Porter. Is that you? I didn't know you were acting this early. Nia Long. Where'd you come from? Mary McCormick. I was like. Haven't seen you in a minute. I had to search. Why? I. It's like my brain tells myself to like. That they were. At some point I was turned off by an actor.

[00:21:37] In real life. Like they did something in real life. And I'm like. Oh, I don't like them. And for me it was Mary. And. It was the shenanigans she was playing during the Oscars. Yes. That was like. That was it. I was. We were through. True. Because I used to like one of the USA shows she was on. Where she was like a. Federal agent or. Where they put you in hiding. What's that one called? No one. They put you in hiding. You're.

[00:22:07] Not undercover. Witness protection. Thank you. Yes. It was. There was a show where she. I really liked that show. But then I was turned off from her. Yeah. So she's in it. Andrew Keegan. Yeah. Where'd we come from Andrew? Andrew Keegan. Honestly. I have to give it to him. As much as Dean Cain. I feel like. Didn't. Really stretch himself too much. I felt like his character was pretty grounded. Like I wasn't feeling. Like he was trying to be.

[00:22:39] Too much. I guess you could say. And I thought Andrew Keegan's role was very grounded. As well. Yeah. I agree. I thought he did pretty well. Oh. Justin Theroux. Showing up out of nowhere. How many things have we seen in him in lately? Like. I know. We keep seeing him. Bro. You want to be with us? This season might be the Justin Theroux season. I think like. We're going to see him soon. When we do Charlie's Angels too. Yeah.

[00:23:09] Ugh. Yeah. He's everywhere. Everywhere and nowhere. At the time. It's crazy because at that time we didn't know who he was. Yeah. He was just the. The. Cigarette man from Romeo and Michelle. But that's. There's three men. Who were on Sex and the City. Our boy. Timothy. Yep. Skipper. Mm-hmm. And Justin Theroux. Trying to think if there's any more. Probably. We'll see. We'll see. Yeah.

[00:23:38] Of course we haven't even. We haven't. We haven't. The movie. And I'm. We're probably going to get this all out of order. Because it's just. Really the movie is just. Following this friend group. Through. I think it's like five weeks. It's not even that long. Yeah. A period of time. So. We're introduced to Dennis. Played by Timothy Oliphant. A young gay photographer. Living in West Hollywood. And really. The.

[00:24:07] The movie is just about. Their relationships. Their. Their dating relationships. Conflict. There's a little bit of drug use in. In here. Towards the end. Yeah. Yeah. I can't wait till we talk about that hospital scene. Oh. Like the bathroom scene. Just felt like they took the cast of Zoolander. Oh my God. And told him to pass around. Oh my God.

[00:24:37] And then there was that one guy that was just like. Iconic vibes. Iconic vibes. Zum besten Preis. Wow geht mit Euphoria in die dritte Staffel. Ein paar Jahre nach der Highschool. Wusste ich nicht, ob das Leben so war, wie ich es wollte. Streamer ab dem 13. April parallel zum US-Start. Wöchentlich eine neue Folge. Das Problem ist, wenn du einen Pack mit dem Teufel schließt, gibt es kein Zurück mehr. Freu dich außerdem auf weitere Highlights wie House of the Dragon und Wicked. Alles ab nur 2,98 Euro im Monat.

[00:25:06] Streaming war noch nie so wow. No, thanks. All these tall guys. And then poor Christian Cain, who by the way I know from like Angel and other shows, he's just this short little thing. And they're passing around like this little plastic bag doing drugs in like coordinated colorful outfits. It was just, I was like what is happening?

[00:25:33] And I was trying to figure out what drug they were doing. Because, so my limited knowledge of drugs. It wasn't a powder. Girl, I don't even know what it was in a bag. It had to be. It wasn't in a bag. It was in a bottle. So that's what leads me to believe it was poppers. Oh, why did I see a bag? There wasn't, it was like a little vial,

[00:26:02] but it wasn't like they were scooping and sniffing. They were just inhaling vapor. It seemed like. They weren't burning. They weren't burning. The two people least likely to speak about drug use. Trying to figure out. Like that's why when we were watching Gia, I was like, okay, she's got a spoon. Okay. Is that a pipe? Context clues. Like trying to put it together.

[00:26:31] But fundamentally what I feel like this friend group are a bunch of whiny babies. Like all they do is bitch. And so many insecurities. I wanted, and we'll talk about this at the end, but I wanted to like this movie so much. Like the cast was great. Like, but it was just, I couldn't find anyone except for Jack endearing at all.

[00:27:00] Let's, let's get to the meat and potatoes of this. Okay. Give me one second. I'm naming everyone. Cause I, you, I got into my head. You could have asked me the name of any of these characters. Couldn't tell you. Oh, I put a screenshot in. Well, no, I'm just saying in general, like if we were just having a conversation, I would call them by their actor name or to which I know them.

[00:27:31] A.K. Skipper. There was a lot of like WB actors, like day players that like the actor, Christopher wheel. I had, I can't, he's never starred in a show, but I know he was on Buffy. I know he was on like a few of those shows, like probably Felicity or something. So I kept seeing a bunch of those actors pop up. So it was like nothing happening. Yes. That's what it was.

[00:27:59] And that's why I feel like it should have been a TV show because there was no overarching theme. Right. To keep us connected. And like, I felt like he tried to do it with the baseball team, but the baseball team wasn't even like introduced until halfway through the movie. Right. I, what I think would have been much better is that if, if they had a back, if you see Jack with each one of them,

[00:28:26] having him be the one that they go to for advice, him being there, he's there, but like kind of in the back, like nobody's really, you know, like he, he interacts with people, but he's not the heart of everything. You know, he is a mentor figure for Dennis. Yeah. And then somewhat. I think for all of them. Yeah. But he just, it doesn't show.

[00:28:56] Yeah. So, okay. So we have Howie played by Mark, Mark McGrath. Not right. Howie played by Matt McGrath. Patrick played by Ben Weber, AKA Skipper. Taylor played by Billy Porter. Cole played by Dean Cain. Benji played by Zach Braff. And then Jack played by John Mahoney. I have this favorite restaurant. Jack owns said restaurant.

[00:29:22] Taylor works there and everyone else just hangs out. No, I think Dennis works there. He came in, went pretty freely to. I don't know, but I do think that. Dean Cain's character works there too. Does he? I feel like that's who I thought the three of them worked there. That's because I can't, I mean, maybe he's making a good salary in the photographer thing.

[00:29:52] I don't know. But like the way that it made it seem was that he's never really put stuff in galleries or anything. Right. I do agree with that. So I don't know what he does, but work at the restaurant. I felt like Dennis just went and hung out in the back a lot. Working. I don't, I don't remember seeing him doing any work though. He's just talking. They're, that's all they all,

[00:30:22] that's all they all are doing is talking. They don't start talking. Yeah. So, okay. Let's do it. Not linearly. Okay. Let's do it character by character. Okay. I think that will go faster. Okay. So we start with Dennis, who is kind of like the heart and the leader of the group. He has these like weekly house parties where people in their community, come and hang out.

[00:30:50] He has been hooking up quite a bit. The whole theme of the entire group is that they're kind of looking for love. They want to find a significant other. Nobody is partnered up. Dennis claims that he's looking for somebody, but not, he's still going with these superficial hookups essentially, but he is totally okay with pointing the finger and wagging his finger at his roommate, who is played by Dean Cain. And that is,

[00:31:20] it was Cole. Cole is an up and coming actor. He still hasn't hit big. So he is working at the restaurant. I'm going to just call it. He's taken shifts at the restaurant. Him and Dennis, like I said, live together. Now, then you have Billy Porter's character, who is Taylor, who is in a committed relationship. So it seems like he's one of the only ones in the group who is,

[00:31:50] but that quickly changes because you start in the beginning, hearing him ask about, has anybody heard from his boyfriend, whatever. And then we find out that his boyfriend calls him and says, we can't be together. And I'm on a vacation with my new boo thing. So he is devastated. They find out that's one of the things that happens at this party. This particular party that we see is because it's Dennis's birthday.

[00:32:18] So we see Dennis come into Jack's establishment. You see Cole at his workplace. And you see Taylor there as well. So you have like all these conversations happening and some, for some reason, Dennis has made, had to make his own birthday cake, but Jack has made a bunch of food for him as well. I feel like Dennis likes to cook and experiment. And so like,

[00:32:46] I think that was a choice to make his own birthday cake. Yeah, probably. I don't know how good he is at it because he's later told that it was okay by Kevin. So, yeah. So once we get to the house party, we meet Patrick, we meet Howie, Howie and Patrick. Actually, like we meet all of them when they're at Jack's restaurant, playing a game,

[00:33:14] trying to pretend that they're straight to see who does it worse. Like who, who would get called out first. So you see them playing like a lot of games and hanging out at Jack's restaurant. And it's just like him talking about his friends and how they're lonely and they want to meet people. But you also realize that these people are absolutely insufferable. Yes. So that's why they're alone. When you meet Patrick,

[00:33:44] he is like a negative Nancy throughout the entire movie. His sister is a lesbian who has a girlfriend played by Nia Long. I object to Nia Long's character because she is just an angry black lesbian for no fucking reason whatsoever. I can understand her frustrations with Patrick, but like you never see anything other than that characteristic in her. Right. The whole time,

[00:34:13] which is annoying. Yeah. Who else do we got? We have, you covered Taylor. Cole. Oh, the Benji of it all. Zach Braff. Right. He seems the youngest and like most insecure. So he starts hitting up the gym a lot. He meets a man at the gym and he gets involved in that like gym rat,

[00:34:42] like clubbing by day, gym by night, GTL. And that gets him into trouble later on in the movie where he gets involved in, in drugs. And his friends are concerned about him, but don't know. Like, they're not just like, Hey, like it didn't feel like they did enough to like. Like they were all very self-involved. And I don't think they saw any real signs of like,

[00:35:09] too worried about to be worried about it at the time. But the way Benji is introduced to us, he is at the party. He is who brings Kevin to the party and Kevin and him work at structure. Now tell me that didn't go like, wow. Wow. What a time. So they work at structure together and, and Kevin makes it quite clear that he's like not interested in Benji and that

[00:35:36] they're more coworkers because immediately he is attracted to Cole. And one of the biggest conversations for all the guys is like them dogpiling on Cole because Cole is like the epitome of who they wish they could be. I mean, how he goes to the point of saying to his therapist, why can't I be Cole? Why didn't God make me Cole? You know, like Cole is attractive. And I think Patrick, both Patrick and Howie kind of speak to that,

[00:36:04] that within their community, especially in LA, that being a 10 is like really, really important. And it's, you know, he, they are not, but Howie is very judgy of people in the, like he's at least, he puts himself out there, but he's like not really trying to date. And even the guy he was dating, who was very handsome, he treats like shit. So it's, they're awful.

[00:36:34] They're awful. They're awful to each other. To themselves. And even like towards the beginning of the movie, first off they, and I know this was written by a gay man. And I, but I just, the amount of times the F word is thrown around. I'm just like, and it's early, it's early two thousands. But I do think in their culture, like they say it to each other. Yeah.

[00:37:03] But then they're asking other people, like, is so-and-so the F word? And they're like, then responding. Like, I just didn't feel like that was authentic. Like I, I don't know any of my friends that would just even be like, Hey, do you think he's gay? Like, why would you even ask that? Yeah. That I totally forgot about that scene. There are some scenes that just,

[00:37:33] I look at this movie as like, maybe some sort of like vignettes, right? Especially in the beginning. It's the introduction is like little vignettes and very much like how sex in the city was in the first season where you see someone, you see some writing, and then it goes into these different scenes and nothing like the episode is not fully pulling it together. Right. And I feel like that's what the movie does until halfway.

[00:38:00] And then all of a sudden starts having some sort of plot. Yeah. And then there's also like these definitions that keep running up on screen. To explain the gay slang, which, you know, okay. I, I appreciate the context. I feel like there was, cause usually you get that when there's like a transition that needs to be made. Like time has passed or something. It just felt like they were just like suddenly interjected.

[00:38:31] Yeah. Maybe if it, maybe if the definitions were like at the bottom or something, as they were saying the word, I don't know, but here's my question. Who was this movie for? I feel like at the time it was probably for other gay men. And if it's for other gay men, why would you even need to define anything? Yeah.

[00:38:59] So I feel like this movie was from the point of view of a gay man for a, like more open audience or hoping that you thinking, because you have some A-list names, very recognizable names in the movie. And so you may think that pedestrians are going to come through and see this movie.

[00:39:26] And so I feel like it was a gay movie made for straight people, but also gay people. If that means it like it's, it's putting context to things that if they were just being the, who they are and what they're doing in their community, wouldn't need to, you better just keep up and figure it out. If you're here, you know what I mean? Right. Like, I don't know if I explained that right. And I'm not trying to be rude, but I just feel like,

[00:39:56] I really liked that this movie was more commonplace. Like an everyday. It didn't, it wasn't rooted in pain and a whole bunch of stereotypes per se. Yeah. Like, despite the fact that there's a lot of straight men playing these roles and they didn't do such great jobs at it. I didn't feel like these characters were caricatures of gay men. Yes.

[00:40:25] But it's also like, it's that thing that we were talking about earlier. Like, they weren't likable in any capacity, but they weren't also so heinous that you were just like, well, let me see where this happened, where this goes. They were just kind of like there. Yeah. Okay. Bunch of self-absorbed 20 somethings thinking they have life figured out when

[00:40:54] they're a hot fucking messes. Yes. We've all been there. Yeah. Yeah. I just, you want, like you said, you go through the whole movie wanting so much to like it. Yeah. Cause it, it has a lot of the elements that are supposed to be there. And that's why I feel like it's written for gay men because hoping that they can see themselves or their friend group. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. At age 20. Yeah. We're all self-involved assholes.

[00:41:23] Like there's definitely an audience for this. It's just not us in our forties. Yeah. Yeah. I, I do think the initial thought was, okay, yes, I'm making this for my community, but I, I guess there are certain parts that make it feel like you're trying too hard to make it accessible to everybody. And sometimes I think the best art is when you just make it for that,

[00:41:51] that particular group and fuck everything else after that. And if you get it, you get it. And if you don't, then it's not for you. And I, I don't know if the studio gave him notes and he had to add those pieces in. And that's what made it feel like, you know, you're catering to a different audience than who you needed to be for. Mm-hmm. We also have to remember, this is, I believe,

[00:42:21] let me double check. I think it is his first deck, like his first director, his directorial debut. I think. Yes. I want to say it's also his for first writing credit, but I'm going to double check that. I don't know. Oh, I'm looking at his producer stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It's his very first writing credit. So like. We'll give him some slack. Yeah. Like it's understandable.

[00:42:51] You're like, you're. As you. Write more, obviously your characters become more defined. Your, your plot lines become tighter. You are more, hopefully as a writer, more critical about what needs to be included, what you can kind of cut from the scene. So. Yeah. Right. And I think because he very much has a television mind,

[00:43:19] that's what comes through in this show. Like. Honestly, if he really was coming from a viewpoint of, from a movie, he would have cut the characters down to maybe four guys. Yes. I think there were too many people like the characters of Patrick and Howie could have been one person. Yes. I agree. I don't think. I don't think Benji was needed.

[00:43:46] Maybe Kevin could have been doing some of the things that he, you know, a young. Or. Cole and Benji could have been one in the same because as an expiring actor, you just want so much to be accepted and wanted. So like. But I can't see Cole doing the drugs though. Hitting the gym. Like. I mean, but if you put it through a lens of maybe not through the gym, like, yeah,

[00:44:15] certainly that element could be through it, but the drugs are then introduced through. Like being on a movie set rather than being. Right. Through partying with your gym bros. The elements of like Patrick. And I apologize audience. I know we're going kind of sporadically more than we ever. That's how this movie made us feel. Sorry. It's just. It's going to be one of those. We're just having a conversation.

[00:44:43] Then a linear going through everything. Because really the, the scene by scene is they have a conversation. They bullshit. Like something. Very minor will happen. Someone goes out on a date. Or someone gets broken up with. And then we have to have another conversation about that. Like there really isn't a whole lot to go scene by scene with. Yeah. And I think that's part of the problem. And, and I think to your point, Danielle,

[00:45:12] making it a TV show where each like individual thing that happens would be an episode. Right. Would have made more sense sense rather than a liner note just to get us to the next conversation that we have. Correct. Now, Cole. I like the, the contrast between Dennis and Cole because both of them are equally attractive. I know the whole group talks about Cole,

[00:45:42] but like Dennis is hot as well. Like let's not play games, but Cole is very comfortable. And who he is and how he dates. You know, one of the scenes we see him in is he's on a date and he is breaking up with someone and he's reading it from his hand. He's a fucking actor. Can you be mad? Probably not. But the guy was mad at him and he's onto the next one. And that's how he moves. Right. So when Benji brings his coworker slash newest crush,

[00:46:10] and they put a lot of effort into talking about how Benji has these crushes, he brings Kevin and immediately Kevin and Cole. they're already like, it was a matter of time. Benji should have known better. Like it was doomed to happen. So, but Kevin has not come out yet. He is still in the closet. And I, I think Cole is like, knows that he's a baby gay and he's, but he's hot and he's going to hook up with him, whatever.

[00:46:41] And Dennis kind of tries to look down on him about it. But at the same time, it's, we find that Dennis and Kevin actually have chemistry with each other. Dennis goes upstairs for a hookup with some guy that he hooked up with the other day. And he's saying to his guy friends, like, well, he's saying to his friends that he wants to stop with the hookups and he wants something real and he's ready for a change.

[00:47:08] And so when he goes upstairs with the guy and they really, he's not feeling it. And he's like, let me turn the lights off. Let me light a candle. And the guy's like, what the hell is going on? And he's like, you want to listen to some music? And he's like, how about the Carpenters? First and foremost, I love me a Karen Carpenter melody. Okay. I love the Carpenters. Do I want to have sex to the Carpenters? No, because it's depressing.

[00:47:37] Like what? Don't you remember? I told you I love you, baby. No. And the guy's like, can we play something else? And he's like, do you not like the Carpenters? I will say it's a major ick that he was like, yeah, why don't you play that Bane song? Like that's Carly Simon. So he was like, you got to go. And then when he comes downstairs,

[00:48:06] that's when he meets Kevin and they have some banter. I mean, there's chemistry there. Yeah. I think this movie would have been so much better if we focused on Dennis's friendship with Kevin. That eventually bloomed into romance. Yeah. Yeah. Like have the movie start with that whole, like Benji introducing him, the,

[00:48:33] the coal of it all going into his birthday party. And they're kind of like little meet cute. Hold on. I'm going to sneeze. Maybe. Yeah. Then moving into the baseball game where Cole has broken up with him. And Dennis is like, well, we still like, we need to check on it. You know, like that was all very endearing. Right. And I felt like out of everyone in the cast,

[00:49:01] the only two characters that actually had any chemistry together, whether it was a friendship chemistry or a romantic chemistry, like they all just felt like they were talking at each other. Yeah. A hundred percent. And then like the Patrick situation with his sister and like, there was no heart in that whole thing. Like he was absolutely miserable. His sister asked him to be a sperm donor for her and her girlfriend.

[00:49:31] And he immediately says no. And like his change of heart is so weird. It's more like nothing's happening in my life. So I should do this. I felt like there could have been a lot more heart into this and the ability to be able to extend their family and how that would work. It just, or even just do like the bare minimum, like that we see time and time again,

[00:49:58] where he's like sitting on a bench at a park and he watches like a mom playing, pushing her kid on a swing. And it was like, Oh, I can do that for my sister. You know, like just something to be the catalyst for this change of heart. Other than like, I'm a miserable person and I need to change that. Yeah. What is that? And then like, just from the box of this movie, I remember seeing it and I'm like, Oh, this movie is like we said, it's about baseball. It's about them playing baseball.

[00:50:28] And like, he's two scenes maybe of the baseball. And I don't even know why the baseball was in there. Cause it does absolutely nothing for the plot except the whole Jack element. And so it's like, again, if you focused on Jack being the heart of the movie, of all their stories, the thing that connects them, and then having this love story blossom,

[00:50:57] or even just the context of like, you're, you're, you're gay. You haven't come out yet to your family. And you're now being a part of the gay community. What that's like and how he got there and all that stuff. That would have been great to anchor it. It was just too much going on too much because I'm thinking back on it again. It's like,

[00:51:27] then we have them all going to the same hairstylist and like bitching. Then we have them going to like a shrink and all bitching. I'm like, how many different places are going to be like our safe space to like confide in someone and the common thread. Cause we have three, we have Jack, we have Jennifer Coolidge, and we have the shrink, but only one of them is going to the shrink, but yes, you're right.

[00:51:53] And then Taylor ends up living with Dennis and Cole. And then he takes over. So there's some shenanigans where he tries to take over the living room and he's kind of just there, but there's like zero real development on his character whatsoever. We do see how we go on a bunch of dates because his, like, I don't know, situationship is just not going anywhere. And yeah,

[00:52:22] I don't understand that whole thing. I didn't understand what the hell was going on about the pot. And I just struggled. Like, and that's fine if you don't tolerate it, but it seemed like he was, he tolerated it or was okay with it at first, but then it became like a issue later. I don't know. It was just a weird catalyst for like stopping the relationship or the situation. Yeah. They,

[00:52:52] they got stuff going on that don't make no sense. And so pretty much all this stuff is happening. And, and Jack at one point puts on a dress for drag. I guess they have like, he has drag every Sunday or whatever, but like, even the character of Patrick is like, why do you keep putting this dress on? You don't do drag.

[00:53:22] You don't like to wear a dress. And it's, it's literally putting, it's an offense to actual drag queens that are doing this. And he goes out like, did he even put makeup on or was it just boobs and a dress? Boobs, a dress and a wig that he puts on in front of everybody. And horrible singing. Yeah. And they, they were loving it. I guess it works for them. But any who,

[00:53:51] they have their last baseball game because Jack dies. One of his storylines is that there's this man that he's been in a relationship with for years and they call him the, the guys call him the purple guy. And they don't ever talk to the man as if there's something weird about him. And they're trying to figure out what Jack sees in him. And I'm looking at this man, trying to understand what is the problem with this man. And at Jack's funeral, he plays the piano and they're like, Oh, that's what Jack saw.

[00:54:21] How do you know? Well, that was so weird for someone that you're so close with. You, you don't talk to their significant other. Right. I was alluding to like Jack kept him totally in secret, which then that's not fair to purple shirt, man. Like, I don't, I don't know either. Although it did. Did get me in my feels that everyone showed up in a Hawaiian shirt to. Oh yeah.

[00:54:50] That was so sweet. And I was just like, I love that they took something that Jack loved and like celebrated him in that way. Yeah. So yeah. Also, Cole has a side lot storyline where he goes out of town because he gets this role. And there's this, this really famous guy that they all think he's gay. Like,

[00:55:17] and then he gets on set and of course is hooking up with him. Nothing really comes from that either. Except when he comes home, Kevin, after the funeral wants to talk to Dennis because they slept together. And Dennis has like, not really looked in the eyes. Like, we don't know what the conflict is. We're very confused as the audience trying to understand what the hell. I just figured. Dennis. Dennis. Is conflicted. Cause he, I think he had genuine feelings and affection for Kevin,

[00:55:47] but then he like did this stupid thing and treated him as just a hookup. And so then Dennis doesn't know how to proceed. Cause he feels shitty about the situation is how I view that. Yeah. Cause like, it would be one thing if Dennis acted weird because of Jack dying, but he started acting weird with, with Kevin before Jack even died. And then I will say, yes, Kevin,

[00:56:17] the funeral is probably not the best place to talk about why homeboy is acting weird with you. Yes. And so I was totally on board with Dennis kind of setting a boundary. Like, we're not talking about this now, but he was very rude and mean. And, but also that doesn't mean Kevin should go sleep with Cole. Yeah. And then. So usually in a movie, you have like one big tragic event that like the catalyst for the third act.

[00:56:47] We had two. So we have Jack dies. Right. And then Benji shows up strung out at his funeral. And then like a couple of days later, Benji's in the hospital. Oh, D'ing on drugs. Then to pump his stomach. Also. I've never seen where you're in your hospital bed with no shirt on. They usually put you in a hospital gown. So I was like, what is this? Are we at a budget?

[00:57:15] That was like all the things that I was watching. That was the thing that was like most egregious to me. And then it's immediately like. Benji's like, yeah, I've been done. And then that like storylines over with. Like no rehab, nothing. Yeah. I don't know. And then Patrick was like a real asshole. Just, I don't want to be friends with these people. Yeah.

[00:57:44] But in the end, at the funeral, at Jack's establishment. No, it's months. It's later. Like afterward, a few months later, maybe a few weeks later. I don't know. They're back at Jack's establishment. And. Cause they're closing the restaurant, aren't they? Girl, I don't even know, but they, they're wrapping up the storyline. Yeah. And Dennis is going to Europe. For a while. To pursue his photography.

[00:58:16] Right. So they make him a little gallery. And. Also. Kyle buys him like. A. Camera case or something with this initials on it. And. Pretty much. What did I say? I think you said Kyle. Right. Damn it. There's like 50 people in this movie. I'm doing the best I can.

[00:58:46] Kevin. Gives him a. Photography thing. I don't know. Something to hold that camera in. And. They pretty much say like, Hey, it's not the right time right now for them, but he'll be back. And he's like, I'll be waiting. And. So we kind of assume that these two will get back together. I do like that when Cole is talking to someone and they bring up the actor and he goes, Oh, he's no, he's not gay. He's married. Yeah. Even though he was hooking up with the guy. So.

[00:59:16] Anywho. Girl, I don't even know what to say. Do we have anything else to say about the plot? Touched on. Everything. Okay. Well, and that's the broken hearts club. I feel like there weren't enough broken hearts for that to be the name of this movie. Yeah. That was my question is like, why? Why? Why? Why was the baseball team called that? It should have been the like. Full of themselves.

[00:59:46] Friends club. Well, apparently the film had a working title of the broken hearts league, as well as eight by tens, a term Berlanti, Berlanti's sister used to describe the men he dated. That makes sense. Like you, everyone that you've dated belongs in the broken hearts league because you've broken their heart. Like that makes sense. I don't know. I don't know. So filming began in October,

[01:00:15] 1999 took place over the course of 13 days on a $1 million budget. Hold on. We shot this whole movie in 13 days. Yes. Okay. Is it all making sense? I guess so. Yeah, I guess so. Director Greg Berlanti was allergic to the room used as Dennis's bedroom.

[01:00:41] So he had to direct many of those scenes from the outside. I don't even know what to say about that fun fact. Was there a mole? I don't know. Was there a cat? I don't understand. Because we couldn't figure that somehow. Well,

[01:01:05] the movie was filmed in LA and West Hollywood while restaurant exteriors and interiors were shot in Long Beach. And Timothy Olyphant and Andrew Keegan were filming their scene on the park swings. And a group of teenage girls noticed Andrew and waited until the scene was over to ask him for an autograph. When Timothy offered his autograph, the girls declined as they didn't know who he was. Dumb bitches.

[01:01:31] But like this was at the height of like Andrew Keegan fever. Yeah. Because I feel like 1999 was the year that 10 Things I Hate About You came out, right? Yes. Yeah. Okay, well. I'm sure they feel stupid now. Yeah. Before we get into our reading rewind, don't forget to hit us up at NoMoreLateBees on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube threads.

[01:02:00] If you feel like you had a better way to put this movie together, please let us know. Because, Lord, we struggled. All right, Jackie. What is your present day reading this movie? There are a lot of pretty people in this movie. So I'll go today. Like, it wasn't like, what the fuck did I watch? I just had a lot of questions. Yeah. Being a huge Greg Berlanti fan, I was very disappointed.

[01:02:31] But this actually would have been a perfect Danielle Jackie movie to rent. Yeah. Because it had a whole bunch of people. It would have been great for the movie game for us. And maybe we would have less, we would have thought we were just like ultra movie bus. I don't know at the time. But now, yeah. What was your reading? Sorry, I missed it. I didn't say. Two-day rental. Okay.

[01:02:58] Well, if you can explain this movie to us, please hit us up at our quick drop. You can call or text 909-601-6653 and you could be featured on a future episode. Next week is really important. It's my birthday movie. So, join us next week for Center Stage, bitches. Yay! Dance!

[01:03:28] And as always, be kind and rewind.