Serial Mom

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[00:00:29] She's a loving wife, a devoted mother, and also a deranged suburban serial killer with a thing for good manners and old-fashioned justice. This week we're kicking off our Lillard Mayhem Month with Serial Mom from 1994. Dark comedy cult classic from the brilliantly twisted mind of John Waters.

[00:00:51] Welcome to the No More Late Fees podcast. I'm Jackie. And I'm Danielle, and we're just two best friends and ex-blockbuster employees re-watching some of the best and worst movies from the late 90s and early 2000s. But this week we're actually celebrating our very first Lillard Mayhem.

[00:01:20] Our tribute to the one and only Matthew Lillard. By throwing it back to this early role in John Waters' Serial Mom. Deep cut. We went all the way back to 94, which you know, usually stay in 95s, but we had to do it. But before we dive in, let's get into some... Hi! If you love the podcast and you want to support us, here's a few ways that you can.

[00:01:48] By leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Your reviews help us grow and keep the nostalgia alive. And don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. We've got plenty more deep dives into your favorite 90s and Y2K movies coming up. And if you want to show off your love for nostalgia, please check out our No More Late Fees merch at nomorlatefees.redbubble.com.

[00:02:16] From movie-inspired designs to podcast swag, we've got something for every movie lover. And we are so excited to have our dear friend Amber joining us in our celebration of Matthew Lillard. Welcome back! Hi! We're excited! If you want to get to know Amber better, check out our episodes of Space Jam, The Hot Chick, Saw, and the accompanying bonus episodes. Could not pronounce that.

[00:02:45] Plus, you can check out this week's episode as we rank Matthew Lillard's top grossing movies. But let's dive into what Serial Mom is about. Serial Mom follows Beverly Suffin, a seemingly perfect 1950s-style housewife with a not-so-secret passion for murder.

[00:03:06] As her neighbors and PTA rivals begin to mysteriously die off, her family must reckon with her secret life, while the media turns her crimes into entertainment. The movie stars Kathleen Turner, Sam Waterston, Ricky Lake, and Matthew Lillard. It was directed and written by John Waters, and you can currently watch it for free on Tubi. But before we start, let's get into our Ratings Rewind. So you know the drill.

[00:03:35] Before we get into the movie, we'll reveal the Ratings Rewind our Y2K versions of ourselves would give. And at the end, we'll see if our current selves agree with our initial rating. Our scale consists of Would Buy It, Would Buy It Again. The best wood plan repeat. Five day rental. Would watch again. Two day rental. Eh, okay, but nothing to write home about. And same day rental. Well, you better recycle that bitch, or somebody's gonna kill you. It's trash.

[00:04:06] Love. Alright, Amber, we'll start with you. I'm going with Would Buy It, Would Buy It Again. I owned it then. I grew up on John Waters movies. I have always loved this one. Jackie? I as well love John Waters movies. Somehow this one eluded me, and I have never seen this movie before. You were watching it. I know. You stay surprising me, girl. I surprised myself on this one.

[00:04:34] I was like, oh shit, this was done by John Waters. Wow. It's a would buy for me. I watched, like, I didn't realize how much by heart I knew this movie because it used to be on HBO all the time. And I had no supervision, so I was watching this shit all the time. It was a great time. Loops. So this movie had a budget of $13 million.

[00:05:02] It had a worldwide gross of $7 million, so it definitely didn't make its budget back. But this is definitely considered one of those cult classics. Like, once it got on VHS DVD, it just, everybody started renting it and seeing it. But who cares what I have to say? Let's hear what Lil Raj had to say about this movie. He awarded it two stars out of a possible four.

[00:05:29] While he found some of Waters' satire effective, he felt that Kathleen Turner's decision to portray her character's mental illness with realism as opposed to a campy fashion, while brave, made the character difficult to laugh at. He wrote, watch Serial Mom closely and you'll realize that something is miscalculated at a fundamental level. Turner's character is helpless and unwitting in a way that makes us feel almost sorry for her. And that undermines the humor.

[00:05:59] She isn't funny, crazy. She's sick, crazy. Okay, Lil Raj with that note. I mean, I see what he's saying. Hard disagree. Well, before we get into the cast and crew, let's hear a message from our pod pals. Welcome to the Busy Signal. My name is Jim and I'm the host of this Retrostologic 80s, 90s and early 2000s podcast.

[00:06:27] Each episode covers something from back in the day that we all took for granted. Things that are now extinct or quickly going that way. Things like pay phones, snacks, old school tech, sodas, experiences, video games, and even the toys that tried to kill you as a kid. All this and loads more. New episodes drop every other Friday. So subscribe and tune into the Busy Signal podcast for some super rad retro fun.

[00:06:55] And don't forget to reach out and touch the past. Okay, so cast and crew, Meryl Streep, Kathy Bates, Glenn Post, and Julie Andrews were all considered for the role of Beverly before Turner was cast. Julie would have been amazing because it's like the most unexpected. Yes. Oh yeah.

[00:07:17] You know, like you could see her being very stern and meticulous and positive and maybe even sing while slaughtering somebody. Yeah. And I think what the horror genre needs more than anything is musical horror because why? Why not? Absolutely. Nothing gets more campy than a musical. No, that's true.

[00:07:43] The original choice for the lead role was Susan Sarandon, but her asking price apparently was too high for such a low budget film. I mean, she does do camp. She does. She would have been fun. She would have been awesome. But I think she was, was she in, I have to think about it. I thought she was in that movie that had like a Amanda Peay in it, but I'm not sure now. So I'm going to go look that up.

[00:08:13] What do you got, Amber? Oh, sorry. John Waters was interviewed about the movie and asked how he, how he cast Kathleen Turner as Beverly. Waters said that other prominent actresses expressed interest in the part, but angered him by either asking if he could rewrite the script to make Beverly less malevolent or saying they couldn't sign up for a role without doing a cast rating first. Turner made neither of these demands and said she'd love to play the role and Waters immediately cast her.

[00:08:42] I love that she decided to do it. And then one of her continuous scene partners or that she does movies with decided to call her up and say, I don't think you should do this movie. And that, and that was good old Michael Douglas. He told her not to do it. I don't know what he was thinking. I don't trust his judgment. He couldn't, he couldn't see what she saw in it. No.

[00:09:14] Our precious Phil Wheaton auditioned for the part of Chip, but only, but ultimately went to Matthew, Matthew Lillard, which is why we have all gathered you here today. I don't think what we would have been bad in this part, but it was, you know, I do think that Matthew Lillard took some parts and made it more funny.

[00:09:38] I couldn't see the scenes at the end where they're at the courthouse and he's trying to like make deals on the phone. I don't know if I would have imagined Will Wheaton doing that. Yeah. But speaking of Matthew Lillard, this was his first starring film. I think this was his second movie ever. And he noticed that Kathleen Turner had memorized everyone's name from the call sheets. And he asked her, why, why did you do that?

[00:10:06] And her reply was, oh, honey, that's the first thing you do. Okay. I wonder if she memorized cast and crew. Cause I think it would be more impressive if like, she knew the crew by everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The audio for Ted Bundy and one of Beverly's correspondences with, with the jail killer is the voice of John Waters.

[00:10:36] And an actual person named Dottie Hinkle worked as a clerk at the courthouse used in the movie. This was an oversight by production since Mink Stoll's character is also named Dottie Hinkle. The real Dottie Hinkle, however, did not sue, but instead gladly signed a waiver allowing the use of her name. Well, I hope she got more money for that. Yeah.

[00:11:02] Like how random that is not like Mary Smith. Yeah. Right. Such a very specific name. Yeah. Okay. Let's get this party started. We're introduced to Beverly and her family. And it's very like 1950s stylized house. And you can tell a couple of things from this opening scene.

[00:11:30] One Beverly hyper focuses on things and can't let it go, which is what leads to the majority of her killings down the road. I know that I normally am a villain apologist. Besides the actual killings. I don't really think she was wrong. Nope.

[00:11:56] I just think like, yes, she definitely has a mental illness and was acting on thought. She was very frustrated. Yeah. And I think she was masking and living this kind of life. I'm not even going to try to use therapy terms or whatever. But the old version of me, as some might like to say, might have wanted to pop off on some of these same things. Now the recycling thing cracked me up because that reminds me of my mom.

[00:12:26] She definitely has beef with the city of Coral Springs. And she goes down there and cut like she won't have an appointment. She'll go down there and she'll wait and talk to whoever, mayor, city councilman, whatever. Whatever. She's ready to like cuss them the hell out. So we all have to be doing our part. Right.

[00:12:54] Fucking neighbor was just throwing shit away. Right. You should care about your neighborhood. Packing peanuts all over the place. Like, what the fuck? Like, and her reasoning for not recycling was crazy. She just said she didn't have room. And I'm looking at her big ass house, her garage, her driveway. How you don't have room to recycle? You're not making sense. Yeah.

[00:13:22] We're also introduced to Beverly's family, her kids, Misty and Chip. Misty is played by Ricky Lake, regular in John Waters movies. Chip obviously played by Matthew Lillard. And her husband, Eugene, played by Sam Waterston. I was so uncomfortable watching Sam Waterston, who I've watched my whole life on television,

[00:13:48] trying to do the nasty with his wife, a.k.a. Kathleen. Like, I was like, I'm not prepared for this. Even though I've seen this movie a million times, I know it's coming. You're fast forward. Just don't sit right with me. You had the look that the children had. Yeah. Could you imagine, like, hearing your parents have sex is a whole nother level of trauma.

[00:14:18] Yeah. And for anyone who's had to deal with that, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. So we meet her family. She's making breakfast. And then that, like, complete fixation that you're talking about happens. Because there is a fly. And she doesn't even, her husband's telling her his whole life story. She don't give a damn. Because she got to catch this fly. And you know what? Again, I don't think that's crazy.

[00:14:45] There's nothing worse than having this damn zoop, zoop in your ear. Gotta go. And so she killed it. And it was a very bloody fly. Which, do flies bleed? Yeah. I've never seen a fly that way. Well, I've seen a mosquito. Oh, yeah. Because they suck your blood. But I. I have to check. Okay. Because I feel like I've murdered a few.

[00:15:12] So the cops show up. And they're like, hey. We're getting reports of someone harassing Dottie Hinkle. And calling her and making obscene calls with vulgar language. Do you know anything about this? We're just asking all the neighbors. And she's like, I don't curse. I don't know what you're talking about. And so then the cops leave.

[00:15:38] And she like giddily like runs upstairs and goes to her bedroom. And she's just like repeatedly yelling pussy into the phone. And Dottie's like, why? Well, I found out the answer. Side note. Flies do not bleed. So I don't think. Well, that was dramatic effect. Maybe.

[00:16:01] So dramatic that the ASPCA refused to allow an actual fly to be killed in the opening kitchen scene. So the art director made a false quote unquote dead fly. So maybe he didn't get the memo. Yeah. They don't. Yeah. Interesting. So I can't remember her reasoning for harassing Dottie. Does she just not like her? Did Dottie do something? Yes.

[00:16:31] It comes up later where Beverly's at the store and she's like trying to get into a parking spot. And Dottie like snakes it from her. Like she's waiting for someone to pull out so she can pull in. And then Dottie comes in. And that is what is driving this rage at this point. Which is kind of crazy because I would have just called her out right then and there. Like there's some things. Yes, I hold a grudge. But bitch, you don't see me standing here? Sitting here? Right. Like what in the hell?

[00:16:59] Or just pull a Kathy Bates in Fried Green Tomatoes and just Tawanda it and just slam your car into hers. I rewatched that movie the other day and I said, Mom, how did you let me watch this shit? Like. It is so good, but so sad. Yeah. Another movie that deals with mental illness without saying it's dealing with mental illness.

[00:17:30] So yeah, we learn because she has her flashback about Dottie and you see her prank calling having the time of her fucking life in the morning. And this neighbor of hers walks in her house, like just walks in her house, keeps calling her name. She's not responding. She goes all the way upstairs and walks in this woman's bedroom.

[00:17:55] Like you clearly they're not friends, like they're friends, but they're not friends like this where you could just be walking in my house. Okay. And was thoroughly upset that this lady just took it upon herself to walk into her house. What TV show was she on back in the day? Wasn't she the secretary in Ferris Bueller's Day Off? No. I could be way off.

[00:18:23] She's Mrs. Puff on SpongeBob, if that's helpful. The actress's name is Mary Jo Catlett, but I've seen her in something like. I'll look it up. What's the one with Rudy and not Rudy? That's God. Now I can't think of the name. Give me it. Give her my brain now. SpongeBob. Facts of Life. Was she in Facts of Life? No, I don't think so.

[00:18:53] Let me pull it up. Okay. While I'm doing that, Barbara then goes next door, right? To the neighbor's house? Or is that? Who is Barbara? I don't know. Beverly. Sorry. It was my turn this time. I was like, what? I'm looking. I went to go look at the list. I said, who's Barbara now? Oh, she was on different strokes.

[00:19:23] That's what it was. Thank you. I knew it was one of those shows. Danielle, she was also on General Hospital. I'm not surprised, but I don't know if it was. I don't know if it was my time period or not. Okay. Like I might've been too young to be paying attention. Anywho. Maybe that's in a bit because Beverly harasses Dottie. The neighbor interrupts her.

[00:19:50] And then later on, we see Beverly at the neighbor's house with Dottie like having tea. Yeah. She crashes that party somehow. Okay. And she's really fucking with Dottie and lets it out of the bag that it's her that's been fucking with her this whole time. And I think the police officers actually asked because they find out about her, the magazines.

[00:20:15] And she's so quick to say who's the magazine doesn't belong to her. And that she got a plan. She does. She's like, oh, that woman never recycles. So I just, you know, had to take it upon myself or whatever.

[00:20:31] So she is like ready and it's like the cops kind of know, but I'm also confused because Misty, the daughter played by Ricky Lake, is also very heavily flirting with this cop. And I'm like, okay, how old is she supposed to be? She's like college age, but she is like every dude she sees, she's like making eyes at him. Right. Yeah.

[00:20:59] And so this guy, which I'm confused because like she thinks they're dating. He comes to pick her up because she goes, she works at the flea market and sells stuff. And this is when the kids are all like heading out. This is before. That. Rosemary comes. To me. Because like, she's like, I paid like a dollar for this. It was like a village people album. I'm going to sell it at the flea market.

[00:21:27] I was like, oh, that sounds exactly like Ken and I every time we go thrifting. Yeah. They also brought a Pee Wee Herman doll. Yeah. Because we may make, we meet Chip's girlfriend who I forgot what the character's name is. Birdie. Birdie. Right. We meet Birdie and we also meet Scotty. Scotty doesn't know. For real. Scotty does not know.

[00:21:55] Scotty doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut. No. Scotty is a horn dog. Like real bad. And we also find out that Chip is like a horror movie buff. And he's obsessed with horror movies. He works at the local video store and he like his whole room is horror. He makes people watch like the grossest like movies that he can find. Poor Scotty barfs at one point because it's so disgusting.

[00:22:26] But his mom loves that shit. Oh, yeah. She doesn't even flinch. So after she goes and fucks with Dottie, she actually breaks one of Beverly, not Beverly, what's her name? Rosemary's Faberge eggs. So this is their excuse to actually go to the flea market.

[00:22:55] And I think by the time this happens, we learn that Misty has been stood up by her quote unquote boyfriend. I think his name is Carl. Yes. Carl done with her. He's on dates with Tracy Lord now. He's at the flea market with his new bitch. Who is another John Waters darling. Right. And when they're there,

[00:23:24] there, I feel like she has to have had, she had to have killed somebody. Was this, this wasn't her first kill. The teacher came first. Right. She finds out that Chip is having problems in class. So she goes to the parent teacher conference. And this is when. They keep calling it. She has to go to a PTA meeting. And I'm like, that's not a PTA meeting. That's just a parent teacher conference. Yeah. I was confused.

[00:23:53] I was confused that this woman in broad daylight got so annoyed with this man said, oh, I'm a fuck him up in broad daylight. And so she ran over him and killed him without a second thought. And of course. She did not just like kill, like hit him with her car. She hit him backed up and then drove over his body. She double tapped him. Yeah.

[00:24:23] It was bad. And the only person that noticed, like, she really is in such delusion that she does not even care that someone could have saw her. And it's a stoner girl that saw her. And so now everyone in town is talking about it and the police are trying to figure it out. And all the clues that they have is that it's a blue station wagon. And guess who is the only person in town who has a blue station wagon? Beverly. Beverly.

[00:24:53] All leads head back to Beverly. So she's killed this teacher. Now she's at the flea market and she takes this fire poker that Rosemary gets and finds Carl in the bathroom. She supposedly checks all the stalls, but doesn't realize there's a horny dog guy in there jerking off and he's hiding. So she doesn't see him. And so she kills him. Not the guy, but she kills. Carl.

[00:25:23] Very. Like, what did she pull out? His liver or something at the end of that? It's some goopy organ. And she has blood on her shoes. Like, there. She is not in serial killer mode where it's like, I'm like, like Jackie's favorite Dexter. Like, there's no thought. But it's like something she's so meticulous about. Like the letters from the magazine. Like, she has an alibi for that. Like, she has thought that through.

[00:25:51] But then it's like, sometimes the rage takes over. And so then she kills in the moment. And those are where she gets caught because she doesn't have time to plan. All I want to sing now is the Kelly Rowland song, When Love Takes Over. But instead it's, when rage takes over. Yeah. Yeah. That's the new hit right there. So she kills this man. Nobody sees her do it. And.

[00:26:22] But the neighbor lady is like, you have dog poop on your shoe. And Beverly is like, oh, ew, gross. And like, doesn't even like properly wipe it off. Or like, oh my God. Like, I have evidence on my shoe. She just kind of flicks a piece of like man meat off of her shoe. And then Beverly, or the neighbor lady like steps on her or something. Like, it gets smeared on the ground. And then you can see it's red like blood.

[00:26:52] And then the neighbor lady is like, I think she just killed that man in the bathroom. I just think it's so hard to believe, right? Like, you're around this neighbor all the time. You've never seen her be violent per se. Yeah. So I can understand what people are questioning. But who else does she kill next? It's not the Annie lady, is it? I'm trying to think. I think next is the couple.

[00:27:21] Yeah. When they think she's going to kill Scotty. Yeah. Scotty's parents. And Scotty enrages her on principle because he never wears a seatbelt. So is it, I was, okay, I was, I was confused about this part. Is it Scotty's parents? Or did they think she was going to Scotty's house and then it turns out she went to a different house? Bingo. Okay. Yeah. They're not related.

[00:27:47] Because at first I was like, oh, I thought it was Scotty's parents too. So I got confused. Yeah. So yeah, there's a couple that's constantly driving her husband crazy because the man is a man baby and he can't stand his dental pain and his wife is like overzealous and constantly taking charge.

[00:28:08] And so her and her husband were supposed to go bird watching after a real good hump session that they had very loudly because she secretly reads serial killer biographies and has letter exchanges with some of them, which is wild business. But it gets her in the mood. It gets her revved. That and killing gets her revved up and she's like, hey, let's do this.

[00:28:36] And the kids are like, please don't do this. I don't want to yuck anyone's yum except when some of your yum is having to do with killing people. That's my line in the sand. Or the dirt ashes to ashes. So she kills the couple. She has a pair of scissors. Yes. And so she stabs the couple to death.

[00:29:03] Meanwhile, Misty and Chip are on their way to Scotty's house because they think she's going to kill Scotty. And Scotty catches her killing the lady who doesn't bring her any tape rewound. Yes. And so she has to go chase Scotty. With a fucking leg of lamb. Yeah. Just pummeled her to death. What woman is picking at in the middle of the day.

[00:29:33] It was hilarious. When did she rope that leg of lamb? I don't know. But the part that made me cringe the most in this whole movie, and y'all know what it is, that dog sucking up on her toes. And she was loving it. And it was gross. Do you remember, was it an episode of Nip Tuck where that lady's dog ripped her nipple off? Y'all know what I'm talking about? I used to watch Nip Tuck, but I don't remember. I think it was Nip Tuck. Maybe it wasn't.

[00:30:02] But she was like putting peanut butter on her body and having the dog lick it. And then it ripped her nipple off. And they had to figure out how to put her nipple back on. Some people should not have animals. No. Some people, I'm sorry, but there's some people who think really nasty things. And if they're alone with their animal for too long, it's a problem. And that's nasty. That's a real nasty business. And that's where my mind went. That's what I felt like.

[00:30:32] That type of behavior was what was being satirized by the toe licking. I was like, there's some subtext here and it's gross. So slowly, like everyone began or the cops began to link Beverly to the murder. Like there's a misplaced dental appointment card at Carl's house. The meat on her shoe at the swap meet. And so people are kind of like they're connecting the dots. But everyone really likes Beverly.

[00:31:02] And at the end of the day, they're like, whoever's doing this is kind of justified in doing it. Like they're kind of like, I don't condone it, but I understand. Yeah. But Scotty was the last straw because they had been zeroing in on her, but this was it. And I love the part that she's like, she's stolen a van at this point trying to find Scotty and kill him.

[00:31:31] And it turns out that that wave she does as her family are now in the car seeing her drive after Scotty was not included in the script. It was just something she did. Kathleen did it. Yeah. And John Waters didn't even recognize it till much later. I think at the screening or something. So, yeah, now she's in it.

[00:32:00] They taking that bitch to trial because she done killed all these people. And she ain't got a worry in the world. And her whole family is like, you know what? That's our mom. That's our wife. We support her. We support. We support a woman's wrongs and rights. And Chip sees an opportunity. And he's like, we're going to monetize on this bitch. We're going to get her on all the talk shows.

[00:32:30] We're going to let her story be heard. You know, like selling merch outside the courthouse during the trial. If I was one of the families who had lost a family member and saw this, I would have reacted the same way that that guy does. He punches out Chip. And Chip's like, look, man, I'm sorry. And then they start talking about who could play his brother. And then all of a sudden he's good. Like, yeah. I know it's satire, but it's crazy.

[00:32:59] It's so wild. And somehow Beverly has now decided she is going to be her own lawyer. And she is she's dodging bullets left and right. She is wiping the floor with the prosecutor. It's pretty bad. She is immediately distracted, though, by Miss Patty Hearst and her white shoes. White after Labor Day. Let me tell you.

[00:33:29] I don't have a lot of fashion do's and don'ts, you know, but my grandma definitely embedded that white shoe after Labor Day situation in my brain. And to this day, even living in Florida, where that rule doesn't necessarily apply as much. I'm like, I don't know. Can't quite bring yourself to do it. It's Halloween. I don't know.

[00:33:56] It's for a costume, but Nana knows the rules and I follow them. Beverly was not playing about that and them shoes. Then we get a surprise cameo by Suzanne Somers because now she's in talks to potentially play Beverly's character in TV movie. Yeah. Movie on screen. I don't know. So she looked fantastic in that movie. Yes, she did.

[00:34:25] So good. Gorgeous. Peak Suzanne. Yeah. And then she pretty much she gets off. Yeah. She's found not guilty. Everything's good. And nobody's paying attention. What does she do? She goes to the bathroom. She interacts with the lady wearing white shoes and kills a bitch.

[00:34:46] Her family, when the verdict happens, though, like you see that just like that dread sink in, which I think is hilarious because like they clearly wanted her to like not go to prison forever. But now they're faced with the reality. She's coming home to live in our house with us. Right. She needs to be put in a mental health facility because it's not going well. Okay.

[00:35:45] And not having the access to information we have now. And just going through. Yeah. Going through a better part of my like adolescence thinking that this was like an actual thing that happened. Yeah. And this lady is roaming free among us. Same with Blair Witch Project. I thought that shit was real. That one fucked us up, didn't it? Yeah. Well, yeah, she's in big trouble. That's it.

[00:36:15] That's Serial Mom. We did it. We did it. One thing is that Misty, I always thought she was flirting with the detective, but then I totally forgot that at the end she gets together with a true crime writer or something. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, oh, I don't know why I thought she ended up with the cop. But that was pretty much it. She'd be bouncing from man to man.

[00:36:45] All right, ladies, were there any fun facts we missed? Like most of John Waters' other movies, it was set in Baltimore, Maryland, and most of it was filmed in Baltimore as well. And it's immediate northern suburb, Towson. Nobody loves Baltimore more than him. I'm surprised his ass wasn't on the wire.

[00:37:11] And I love that he picked a video store that was his local video store to be in the film, which was, you know, I doubt it's still around, though. I also doubt that. John Waters said on the DVD commentary, the hardest location to secure was the church, where we see the marquee, capital punishment and you for Sunday service. Right.

[00:37:38] They have that service when she is like, they know that she's the killer and she's just smiling. Olivia, having a great time. Having a great time. Apparently, the copyright holders of this song, Tomorrow, as heard when Mrs. Jensen is watching Annie in her living room, charged $60,000 for the rights to use the song because of the explicit content of John Waters' past films. Well, I asked where the budget was going.

[00:38:08] I see now. Tomorrow. Right there. Tomorrow. Tomorrow and Daybreak. Yeah. Oh, my God. I forgot about Daybreak. It's like 60 times. Well, Kathleen Turner asked John Waters if she could bring her friend Sandra Day O'Connor to the set. And Waters was obviously amazed and happily agreed. And O'Connor spent the entire day on set and was photographed with the whole group at the end of the day.

[00:38:37] So that's so cool. I remember when I was little learning about Sandra Day O'Connor, I always confused her with Sandy. Sandy Day? Sinead O'Connor? No, no. No, the girl who played Gidget, who was like my favorite. Sandra Day? Sandra Day. Yes, I got them confused a lot.

[00:39:00] John Waters said on the Blu-ray special features that this is his favorite of all of his movies that he has made during his career, which, I mean, I'm sure he's made some since then. So we'd probably have to ask him that question again. Well, Jackie, Scotty's car is not a GTO. It's a 1967 Pontiac Le Mans. I hope that said that right. Which you can clearly see on the passenger side of the dashboard when the top is down. How'd they get that wrong?

[00:39:30] I would have just said red car. Red car, no top. Yeah. See if there's anything else. Well, let's talk about how the movie even got started. So apparently the film had a trouble post-production. There was a conflict between Waters and Savoy Pictures.

[00:39:50] So in his 2019 book, Mr. Know-It-All, Waters states that the executives from the studio viewed an early cut and then objected to its violence and dark comedy. They demanded the film be substantially re-edited and given a different ending, which Waters refused to do. Listen. John Waters is going to do what John Waters is going to do. Right. You either give him the funding and let him do John Waters. Right.

[00:40:20] Or you don't give him the funding. Like, why are you going to argue with him? They saw the script. Like, what are we talking about? Yeah. And at this point in time, we knew who he was. We knew what he was doing. Like. It was pretty bad.

[00:40:36] So then it continued to be a struggle because then they had a test screening that did poorly, which Waters believed was deliberately held before a conservative audience, which they were more than, you know, more than likely to not enjoy the film. So he contrasted it with a more receptive screening for members of the film industry in L.A.

[00:41:00] And then what actually probably got all of this to stop was that Kathleen Turner reached out to her friend, Liz Smith, who's a famous gossip columnist in New York. Well, I don't know if she's in New York, but I think she is. She intervened and put a column in the newspaper saying, leave Serial Mom alone, publicizing the situation. And then Savoy eventually relented on all of its demands. So that's how we got it.

[00:41:29] It's just there is a place for satire and there are a place for movies like this and directors and writers like John Waters. And is it ever going to be a huge like blockbuster movie? No, but you are catering to an audience who are like devoted to this type of humor.

[00:41:58] So I just I feel bad that I'm sure every movie he makes, he has the same argument every single day. It's like, just let him do what he's going to do. And it's funny because he had a hard time during this time when Indies was like an okay thing to do. I can't even imagine how hard it is now to get things, you know, money behind it.

[00:42:23] I know why the studio was giving it a hard time because when they look at trying to get a wide audience to see it when a movie is rated R, that means you're cutting out a lot of people that can't see harder. So yeah, didn't didn't do so well.

[00:42:40] Yeah, it really hasn't written anything since 2015 with the exception of Hairspray Live, which if you have any hot takes or disagree with us, agree with us, whatever. Let us know. Hit us up at NoMoreLateFees on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube, Threads, and Blue Sky. And let's get into present day ratings. Amber, we'll start with you. Still would buy, would buy again. I own it. Jackie, now that you've seen it.

[00:43:10] Technically, I own it because I purchased it to watch it, but I will give it a five-day rental. This one's a nostalgic watch, so I would buy still. Like, I mean, I still own it, and I, once Jackie hooks up my DVD player, I'll watch it. Well, if you have any feedback for us, hit us up at our Quick Drop, 909-601-6653.

[00:43:37] Twat us at the Twitters, hum us at the Threads, Butterfly in the Sky at Blue Sky, and you can be featured on a future episode. And join us next week as Lillard Mayhem Month continues with the curve. Amber, a pleasure as always. Thanks for joining us. So fun. And your love of John Waters and Matthew Lillard. Always. You can always count on me for that.

[00:44:08] And as always, be kind and rewind. And don't wear white after Labor Day. That's right. Mm-hmm.