Saw

[00:00:00] Brace yourself for a twisted ride as we revisit the movie that redefined horror in the 2000s, Saw.

[00:00:20] Welcome to the No More Late Fees podcast. I'm Jackie.

[00:00:23] And I'm Danielle, and we're just two best friends and ex-blockbuster employees rewatching some of the best and worst movies of the late 90s and early 2000s.

[00:00:32] This week, we're diving into the gritty world of Saw, the movie that gave horror fans a taste of something truly sinister.

[00:00:41] Before we start unraveling the traps, though, let's get into some housekeeping.

[00:00:51] If you love the podcast and you want to support us, here are a few ways that you can.

[00:00:55] If you're loving the podcast, why not spread the joy by leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite listening platform.

[00:01:03] Your feedback means the world to us and helps our community grow.

[00:01:06] Plus, it's a great way to let others in on the fun.

[00:01:10] And be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode, especially with spooky season in full swing.

[00:01:18] And get into that Halloween spirit with our No More Late Fees merch.

[00:01:22] Check it out at nomorelatefees.redbubble.com

[00:01:26] This week, we're thrilled to have Jackie's bestie, Amber, join us to discuss Saw.

[00:01:32] Welcome, Amber.

[00:01:33] Hello.

[00:01:36] If you want to learn more about Amber, check her out later this week on our bonus episode, as we rank plot twist classics.

[00:01:44] And you can also find her on our previous episodes of the Hot Chicken Space Jam.

[00:01:50] All right, guys, let's get into Saw.

[00:01:52] Saw follows two men, Adam and Dr. Lawrence Gordon, who wake up chained in a dilapidated bathroom with no recollection of how they got there.

[00:02:00] They soon discover that they are pawns in a deadly game orchestrated by the Jigsaw Killer, who happens to force his victims to confront their life choices through brutal traps.

[00:02:11] The movie stars Carrie Elwes, Lee Winnell, Monica Potter, Danny Glover, and Tobin Bell.

[00:02:17] The movie was directed by James Wan, written by Lee Winnell.

[00:02:21] You can currently watch it on Peacock and Max.

[00:02:24] But before we start, let's get into our ratings rewind.

[00:02:26] So you know the drill.

[00:02:28] Before we get into the movie, we'll reveal the rating our Y2K versions of ourselves would give.

[00:02:33] Then at the end, we'll see if our current selves agree with our initial rating.

[00:02:38] Our scale consists of would buy it, would buy it again.

[00:02:41] The best would plan repeat.

[00:02:43] Five day rental.

[00:02:44] Would watch again.

[00:02:46] Two day rental.

[00:02:48] Eh, okay, but nothing to write home about.

[00:02:50] And same day rental.

[00:02:53] Just put it in the garbage in the back because it's trash, baby.

[00:02:57] It's trash.

[00:02:58] Amber, what is your Y2K rating of Saw?

[00:03:03] I'm going to give this one a five day rental.

[00:03:06] It's not my favorite, but it is one that I've watched multiple times.

[00:03:13] Jackie?

[00:03:14] Oh, I remember distinctly seeing this in the theater and was blown away by it because it

[00:03:20] was brand like a brand new concept.

[00:03:22] Very low budge.

[00:03:24] Almost shot completely in a single room.

[00:03:27] At least the two main characters.

[00:03:29] And then that twist ending.

[00:03:31] And so little baby horror Jackie was obsessed.

[00:03:35] I owned it.

[00:03:36] And I owned the special edition DVD where the cover had a buzzsaw floating around in fake

[00:03:43] blood.

[00:03:44] I remember that.

[00:03:46] Not I remember you having that because I wasn't there, but I remember that cover.

[00:03:50] And apparently now, because I looked it up, I was like, oh, was that just like a figment

[00:03:57] of my imagination or did it actually exist?

[00:03:59] And everyone like there's a whole Reddit thread about people posting what it looks like now.

[00:04:06] And it's just like dried red flakes.

[00:04:10] The blood is no more.

[00:04:12] But that was my long winded way of saying I would buy it.

[00:04:17] Danielle?

[00:04:19] Never seen it.

[00:04:22] Never seen it.

[00:04:23] Avoided it.

[00:04:24] But I like I knew that at some point someone saw their foot off.

[00:04:34] Yes.

[00:04:35] And that was all I needed to know.

[00:04:40] And if it wasn't for this podcast, I think I could have gone to my final resting place.

[00:04:45] Never have seen seeing this movie.

[00:04:49] So.

[00:04:51] Buckle up, everybody.

[00:04:54] All right, let's get into box office.

[00:04:57] So this movie had a budget of $1.2 million and it made $103.9 million worldwide.

[00:05:06] So astronomical.

[00:05:09] It's one of those few movies, especially around this time that just had zero budget, but just

[00:05:14] was a hit.

[00:05:15] It goes with Blair Witch Project, Napoleon Dynamite.

[00:05:19] This movie, people didn't see it coming.

[00:05:22] Yeah.

[00:05:22] And it was originally supposed to go straight to video.

[00:05:26] But because it has surprising success at the Sundance Film Festival, it got a theatrical

[00:05:34] release, which is amazing.

[00:05:38] All right.

[00:05:39] Let's hear what Lil Raj had to say.

[00:05:41] So Roger Ebert gave the film two stars.

[00:05:46] He said Saw is an efficiently made thriller, cheerfully gruesome, and finally not quite worth

[00:05:54] the ordeal it puts us through.

[00:05:56] It's a fictional machine to pair sadistic horrors with merciless choices.

[00:06:02] And so the question becomes, do we care enough about the characters to share what they have

[00:06:07] to endure?

[00:06:08] I didn't.

[00:06:09] That's not me.

[00:06:10] That's what Lil Raj said.

[00:06:13] Saw is well made and acted and does what it does about as well as it could be expected

[00:06:21] to.

[00:06:21] Horror fans may forgive its contrivencies.

[00:06:24] I think you nailed it.

[00:06:26] Yay.

[00:06:28] I just think this is pretty.

[00:06:31] I mean, this movie cements the fact that it changed the type of horror movies we started

[00:06:37] to get.

[00:06:38] It was definitely a pylon because we're just coming out of like a lot of the Japanese horror

[00:06:45] movies being remade.

[00:06:46] Yeah.

[00:06:46] And then Saw just like opened the doors and it's jumpstarted James Wan's career.

[00:06:53] I mean, he has been ruling horror since 2004 at this point because I believe he's responsible

[00:07:01] for what?

[00:07:02] Like The Conjuring.

[00:07:04] So he's, yeah, not only a producer, director, and writer.

[00:07:10] He directed Saw, Dead Silence, Death Sentence.

[00:07:20] Never heard of that one.

[00:07:21] Insidious, The Conjuring, Insidious Chapter 2.

[00:07:27] Also took a dip into the Fast and the Furious, did Furious 7.

[00:07:32] Wait, no, that's, yes, that is.

[00:07:34] The Conjuring 2.

[00:07:37] Then he did Aquaman.

[00:07:41] I'm going to pretend, also Aquaman, The Lost Kingdom.

[00:07:44] I'm going to pretend I didn't see that one.

[00:07:46] And Malignant.

[00:07:48] So definitely has been in his horror bag for the last damn near 20 years, it feels like.

[00:07:55] So interesting that, yeah.

[00:07:58] And he and Lee had kind of the idea.

[00:08:04] Lee is credited as the writer of Saw, but I think it did start out as a nine minute short

[00:08:11] with just the jaw scene.

[00:08:15] And Lee played the character that was stuck in the jaw device.

[00:08:19] But it sounded like they were partners from early on making movies.

[00:08:26] Yeah, I think that's really cool.

[00:08:28] I had no idea that.

[00:08:30] I don't know who I thought was in the movie.

[00:08:35] No, I didn't know who Lee was.

[00:08:37] No, no.

[00:08:38] Lee is not the woman behind you.

[00:08:41] No, that's Shawnee, I think his name.

[00:08:44] Oh, okay.

[00:08:44] So Lee is the guy who's in the bathroom.

[00:08:46] He's also, he wrote the movie and also acted in the movie.

[00:08:49] Yes.

[00:08:50] Okay.

[00:08:51] I was confused for a second.

[00:08:52] I was like, are we having another Spice Girls moment where I'm thinking I gender swaps

[00:08:58] again in my head?

[00:09:00] And it seems like their partnership is pretty tight because he also started, you know, he's

[00:09:07] also been in some of the movies that James has not written, but he also starred in the

[00:09:14] ones that he's filmed, directed.

[00:09:17] And I'm trying to see which other ones he wrote.

[00:09:20] Yeah, he wrote most of them as well.

[00:09:22] It seems he did the Insidious saga.

[00:09:25] Lead in?

[00:09:26] Yeah.

[00:09:27] He wrote them.

[00:09:28] He wrote Saw 3, Saw 2, Dead Silence.

[00:09:31] Yeah.

[00:09:31] So it seems to be a very lucrative partnership.

[00:09:36] Yeah.

[00:09:37] I love that.

[00:09:38] I love that they did that.

[00:09:40] Like a Scott Moser, Kevin Smith thing.

[00:09:44] Yes, definitely.

[00:09:46] And I love that the way that they, you know, they made the short, but the way that they

[00:09:50] got to where to make the movie is that they were trying to see how they can cut costs.

[00:09:56] I believe that the Blair Witch Project came out just as they were starting to think about

[00:10:01] it.

[00:10:01] And so that gave them even more fuel to the fire.

[00:10:04] And they were limited with budget because they had no money in their bank account.

[00:10:08] So they were like, okay, the best way that we think we can get this made and not add more

[00:10:14] costs is if we make it so somehow the script and the plot is in one room.

[00:10:20] And I think that's where they were able, like the launch pad, which is really smart.

[00:10:25] And I love when movies can actually accomplish that when the writing, the acting, everything

[00:10:30] comes together so well that you're not bored in this one setting.

[00:10:36] Yep.

[00:10:37] Me, me personally, I was like, can we get some Ajax and bleach in this bathroom?

[00:10:42] You know, it was a struggle.

[00:10:45] I know.

[00:10:46] That was a nightmare.

[00:10:46] Reaching in that toilet.

[00:10:48] Then be me.

[00:10:50] That's all I'm going to say this episode.

[00:10:52] Couldn't be me.

[00:10:54] Another movie that does that really well is Cube, where we're in one room.

[00:11:00] They changed the lighting.

[00:11:01] Yes.

[00:11:04] But we're in one room the entire movie.

[00:11:07] But it doesn't feel like it.

[00:11:10] Yeah.

[00:11:12] 100%.

[00:11:12] Yeah.

[00:11:13] It doesn't feel like it.

[00:11:14] And that's just a testament to good acting and good writing.

[00:11:18] Yeah.

[00:11:18] And James Wan just did his thing to directing.

[00:11:21] Like, even though it's supposed to be gritty, but it's still like the lighting, everything

[00:11:31] still comes out very nice.

[00:11:34] Yeah.

[00:11:35] The aesthetics of it.

[00:11:36] It's not one of those movies where you're like, what the fuck am I watching?

[00:11:40] Everything's like in the dark.

[00:11:42] Yes.

[00:11:44] Because it was dark, but it wasn't dark.

[00:11:46] You know what I mean?

[00:11:46] Yeah.

[00:11:47] There's a lot of movies like I've been seeing, especially lately.

[00:11:49] I don't know what's going on in Hollywood with the lighting.

[00:11:52] I'm like, y'all need to brighten this bitch up.

[00:11:55] I can't see.

[00:11:57] Yeah.

[00:11:58] Agreed.

[00:12:01] Well, we, before we jump into cast and crew, let's hear a message from one of our pod

[00:12:07] pals.

[00:12:14] Welcome to the busy signal.

[00:12:16] My name is Jim and I'm the host of this retro-stologic eighties, nineties, and early two thousands

[00:12:21] podcast.

[00:12:21] Each episode covers something from back in the day that we all took for granted.

[00:12:25] Things that are now extinct or quickly going that way.

[00:12:28] Things like pay phones, snacks, old school tech, sodas, experiences, video games, and even

[00:12:37] the toys that tried to kill you as a kid.

[00:12:39] All this and loads more new episodes drop every other Friday.

[00:12:44] So subscribe and tune into the busy signal podcast for some super rad retro fun.

[00:12:49] And don't forget to reach out and touch the past.

[00:12:58] Cast and crew.

[00:12:59] What we got?

[00:13:01] So I couldn't find much in, and I would be super interested to find out like, how, how

[00:13:07] did they get Carrie?

[00:13:10] How did they get Danny Glover?

[00:13:12] And I was thinking maybe they had these big lulls in their careers.

[00:13:15] And so it was like them getting back into acting, but I'd looked at their IMDVs and like, there

[00:13:23] wasn't really big gaps.

[00:13:25] So the world we may never know.

[00:13:28] It could have been the script, you know, they might've been.

[00:13:30] They might've been like, this is.

[00:13:32] Seeing something in it.

[00:13:33] Yeah.

[00:13:34] Yeah.

[00:13:34] But Danny Glover and Shawnee Smith completed their scenes for the movie in just one production

[00:13:40] day.

[00:13:41] And then.

[00:13:42] Not surprised.

[00:13:44] Yeah.

[00:13:46] Danny Glover just wandered around with a gun and then like, couldn't talk for half of it.

[00:13:52] So much, so much commentary.

[00:13:57] And Shawnee Smith completed her scenes with a really bad case of the flu.

[00:14:02] The producer, producer Mark Berg was impressed by her ability to whip her body around with

[00:14:07] the head device on while suffering from a very high fever.

[00:14:11] That girl was just high on medication.

[00:14:15] It's true.

[00:14:16] Yeah.

[00:14:16] Or like, I know it's a tight timeline, but like, have her come back.

[00:14:21] Right.

[00:14:21] Like, she's not going to be sick for the entire 18 days.

[00:14:24] Like, we can shoot your shit later.

[00:14:28] Her scene was so small.

[00:14:29] Like, when you think about it.

[00:14:32] So.

[00:14:32] It was.

[00:14:33] Okay.

[00:14:35] That device on her head was wild though.

[00:14:38] If I woke up and that thing was on my head.

[00:14:41] I literally would have done what Uncle Joey did.

[00:14:45] Cut it out.

[00:14:46] Like, y'all are messing with me for real.

[00:14:50] Yep.

[00:14:52] So let's go ahead and hop into the movie.

[00:14:56] It starts in like this weird bathroom, but I also feel, I don't know where they are.

[00:15:07] It's gross and dirty.

[00:15:10] Yeah.

[00:15:11] And somehow there's a two-way mirror into a bathroom, which confuses me.

[00:15:17] I mean, I feel like he obviously had to do some modifications to his hell dead dungeon to set this crazy thing up.

[00:15:28] What I like about Jigsaw is he petty.

[00:15:32] You know I love that.

[00:15:36] Yeah.

[00:15:36] You know, he's petty.

[00:15:38] He's petty.

[00:15:39] He has a lot of time on his hands.

[00:15:42] He can lay on the floor for two hours.

[00:15:44] Yeah.

[00:15:45] He's committed.

[00:15:46] He is.

[00:15:46] He's committed.

[00:15:47] If he's going to do something, he's going to finish and start it.

[00:15:50] You know, like no half-ass in here.

[00:15:52] I like a man like that.

[00:15:54] He also, a lot of times gets other people to do his dirty work for him.

[00:15:59] Love that.

[00:16:00] He's a multitasker.

[00:16:02] He knows how to, what's the word?

[00:16:07] I want to say delineate, but that's not it.

[00:16:10] Thank you.

[00:16:11] He knows how to delegate.

[00:16:12] Who doesn't love that?

[00:16:13] Yep.

[00:16:14] A man who knows I don't have a plan and delegate properly?

[00:16:18] That sounds like, put a ring on the finger, sir.

[00:16:24] So we're going straight for a Jigsaw apologist.

[00:16:30] I just, you know, I think the only question I really had was, what did Adam do?

[00:16:38] Maybe he made money off of like spying on other people.

[00:16:43] Like being invasive.

[00:16:45] Yeah.

[00:16:46] In his tape, it talked about him being like a voyeur and like watching other people live their lives.

[00:16:52] Dude.

[00:16:53] My dude.

[00:16:53] You can't.

[00:16:54] Okay.

[00:16:56] I can, I can be an apologist for the other stuff, but like, sir, you have a two-way mirror in a bathroom.

[00:17:03] You somehow purchased and fixed up to watch these people suffer.

[00:17:06] You like to watch people hurt and be in pain.

[00:17:11] Yeah.

[00:17:11] And you're mad because a guy is a private investigator.

[00:17:15] Yeah.

[00:17:16] Give me a fucking break.

[00:17:18] Also, what did Zep do?

[00:17:19] He was like defending the patients when Dr. Gordon was like being like, not callous, but he was being like flippant about his patients being ill.

[00:17:32] Yeah.

[00:17:33] I was confused about that too.

[00:17:35] That is a question.

[00:17:37] That is a quandary.

[00:17:39] Yeah.

[00:17:40] I might come up with something.

[00:17:42] Okay.

[00:17:42] And was the doctor really cheating?

[00:17:47] Because that person was like, is the twist that he's, he brought, who brings a briefcase to a hunch fist, you know?

[00:17:55] I mean, the briefcase could just be like a prop to get out of the house.

[00:17:59] Like, I'm going to work.

[00:18:00] Here's my briefcase.

[00:18:01] But I don't think he would have brought it in.

[00:18:02] Yeah, but he could have left it in the car.

[00:18:03] Yeah, that's true.

[00:18:04] Is it his toys?

[00:18:05] Yeah.

[00:18:06] What if it has some, some whips and chains?

[00:18:09] Or a butt plug.

[00:18:11] Just a briefcase of little dildos to the city motel?

[00:18:15] Maybe he was in an MLM and he had to sell sex toys on the side.

[00:18:21] Entirely plausible.

[00:18:24] I don't think he ever cheated.

[00:18:26] I think he was like flirting with the idea with that one lady.

[00:18:31] I thought he was doing like medical stuff on the side.

[00:18:37] They make it unclear.

[00:18:40] Not where my brain went.

[00:18:41] But I also think it was just the fact that like he would work really long hours and not have time for his family that like very obviously wanted him around more and loved him.

[00:18:53] Yeah.

[00:18:54] I just think this movie surprised me because it was not how I envisioned it all these years.

[00:19:00] I don't know if I think I kind of thought it was going to be on the line of the Human Centipede movie, which by the way, I've actually seen and I'll never be right again.

[00:19:13] I haven't seen the Human Centipede movie, Danielle.

[00:19:17] I saw it in theaters.

[00:19:18] At the draft house we ate while we were watching.

[00:19:22] Can't.

[00:19:22] No.

[00:19:23] I don't even know how I watched that movie.

[00:19:26] It wasn't even like good enough to justify all the gross.

[00:19:33] It just wasn't good.

[00:19:34] But that's the level I thought this movie was going to be.

[00:19:37] So color me surprised when I walk into a thriller slash murder mystery.

[00:19:46] I don't know what the fuck you would call it, but it wasn't what I thought.

[00:19:49] It was thoughtful.

[00:19:52] Thought provoking.

[00:19:54] Yeah.

[00:19:54] And also, I remember telling Jackie that she was super excited for me to watch it.

[00:20:01] And I was like, girl, I already watched it.

[00:20:03] I was bored.

[00:20:05] I was bored.

[00:20:06] I was bored until we got to where that man started to try to go cut his leg.

[00:20:13] When he started to try to cut his foot, that was it.

[00:20:16] I was invested.

[00:20:18] I will say this is the most benign saw.

[00:20:24] They really upped the factor in the subsequent saws, which I think I definitely saw a saw too.

[00:20:31] I don't even know if I saw the third one.

[00:20:35] But saw too is seared into my brain because a lady literally falls into a pit of hypodermic needles.

[00:20:48] That would.

[00:20:49] What's that thing I have with the little tiny holes?

[00:20:52] Oh, the trybophobia.

[00:20:54] Yeah.

[00:20:54] If I saw that, I probably would die.

[00:20:56] Literally.

[00:20:56] I can't.

[00:20:58] No.

[00:20:58] Yeah.

[00:20:58] So that's the one thing out of all of this shit that I will willingly watch.

[00:21:04] That is the one thing where and that one.

[00:21:08] Yeah, it's going to be it's not going to be fun.

[00:21:11] Right.

[00:21:12] But it's not going to be the thing that kills you either.

[00:21:18] Yeah.

[00:21:19] Oh.

[00:21:20] Anywho, back to the bathroom.

[00:21:24] The opening scene is like this guy with his head submerged in a bathtub.

[00:21:29] And you see this glowy thing floating around him.

[00:21:32] And then he pops up.

[00:21:34] And when he pops up, the drain to the bathtub is pulled.

[00:21:38] And so everything, including the glowy thing, goes down the drain.

[00:21:41] So that's how we start out.

[00:21:43] And then so that is Adam.

[00:21:46] And then we also are quickly introduced to Dr. Gordon.

[00:21:51] His first name Lawrence.

[00:21:53] He's also called Larry.

[00:21:54] He has many names in this short ass movie, but they're very disoriented.

[00:21:58] They don't know how they got there.

[00:22:00] And then in the middle of the room is a man that seemingly has committed suicide.

[00:22:06] He's holding a gun and a tape recorder and he's face down in a pool of blood.

[00:22:12] So that's where we are at the very first scene of the movie.

[00:22:18] Question.

[00:22:19] Like, Larry's a doctor.

[00:22:22] Yeah.

[00:22:22] That man.

[00:22:23] Did he take, like, did he take a drug to just completely make his body?

[00:22:29] He must have.

[00:22:30] Because Larry would have noticed if the guy was breathing still.

[00:22:36] Well, and I saw a commentary that said, like, being a surgeon, you would have noticed that the blood wasn't turning black.

[00:22:45] Mm-hmm.

[00:22:45] And that the body wasn't turning yellow, which I guess is the thing.

[00:22:51] Mm-hmm.

[00:22:51] I don't know.

[00:22:52] So there was commentary about Larry's skills as a doctor.

[00:23:01] So they quickly start finding all of these clues hidden around the bathroom.

[00:23:08] They each have a cassette in their pockets.

[00:23:11] Adam's tape says he must survive.

[00:23:13] And Lawrence's tape says he must kill Adam by 6 a.m.

[00:23:16] Or his family will die.

[00:23:20] So we are at an impasse.

[00:23:24] And each of them don't know what's on their tape.

[00:23:27] Like, they see this and they don't tell each other at first.

[00:23:31] Yeah.

[00:23:32] So at the end of Lawrence's tape, you hear, like, follow your heart or something like that.

[00:23:40] Very faint.

[00:23:41] And so there's a heart on the toilet.

[00:23:42] And then that's when he's like, check the toilet, Adam.

[00:23:47] And Adam just, like, okay.

[00:23:48] And, like, up to his shoulder.

[00:23:51] In the doo-doo heart toilet.

[00:23:52] In the doo-doo heart toilet.

[00:23:54] And he goes, I feel nothing solid.

[00:23:59] It was so hard.

[00:24:02] So hard for me to watch this.

[00:24:05] I have to remember that I don't know how I would react in a situation like this.

[00:24:12] But I 100% doubt that I would shove my hand into a filthy-ass toilet.

[00:24:17] I just, I can't see myself doing that in the direst of situations.

[00:24:23] Especially because there's no way to clean it.

[00:24:25] Like, you're shackled to a pipe.

[00:24:29] And you drained the bathtub.

[00:24:30] So what are you going to do?

[00:24:33] Die.

[00:24:33] I choose death.

[00:24:35] Danielle would have just laid there.

[00:24:37] Yeah.

[00:24:38] Yeah.

[00:24:39] Look, you ain't going to get me all stuck.

[00:24:41] You obviously want me to be in terror, right?

[00:24:47] Yeah.

[00:24:47] I'm not giving you the satisfaction.

[00:24:49] I think my chances at this point, most likely I have, like, maybe a 10% chance of living or surviving through this.

[00:24:57] Because I'm going to chill.

[00:24:59] I would probably start cleaning my side of the bathroom.

[00:25:03] And that's it.

[00:25:06] Take a little nappy.

[00:25:07] Yeah.

[00:25:07] And then he might electrocute me.

[00:25:09] But whatever.

[00:25:10] Quicker the better.

[00:25:12] Question.

[00:25:14] Couldn't they have, like, shoved, like, a piece of clothing in between the shackle and their foot?

[00:25:23] But in order to, like, because then the conductivity wouldn't be as bad when they potentially got electrocuted, right?

[00:25:31] Probably.

[00:25:31] But, like, they didn't see the electrocution coming.

[00:25:35] And by the time Adam got it.

[00:25:38] But, right.

[00:25:38] But by the time after Adam did it, like, the doctor wasn't, Lawrence wasn't thinking about shit, like, besides his family.

[00:25:47] He was gone.

[00:25:48] Like, his brain had cracked at that point.

[00:25:51] But I also feel like.

[00:25:53] At the very beginning.

[00:25:55] Like, as soon as that shackle started getting uncomfortable, I would have been padding it.

[00:25:59] Yes.

[00:25:59] Yeah.

[00:26:00] It would have already been there before the electrocution.

[00:26:02] Yeah.

[00:26:03] Yeah.

[00:26:05] That would have just been then.

[00:26:07] Well.

[00:26:08] That's another option.

[00:26:10] Another way to go.

[00:26:13] Ridiculous.

[00:26:14] So, after Adam puts his whole arm in the doo-doo water, he realizes it meant the back of the tank where the clean water lives.

[00:26:23] How did they not think that one first?

[00:26:26] Because it's, especially because you have way more room to hide stuff in there.

[00:26:32] Because, like, clearly you could just look in the toilet and see nothing is there.

[00:26:36] I think it was so murky he couldn't see inside.

[00:26:39] Oh!

[00:26:43] Gross.

[00:26:45] And I think he was hoping, like, a key or something.

[00:26:48] Like, he was just gonna, it was a, it was just, like, a ten-minute game and he was gonna get a key and be able to, like, walk out.

[00:26:55] I don't know what Adam was thinking.

[00:26:57] But instead, he found two hacksaws.

[00:27:00] But they were, they're too dull to cut anything, so they just get tossed aside for now.

[00:27:09] Yeah.

[00:27:09] Yay.

[00:27:10] We do get a lot of flashbacks in this movie.

[00:27:14] The first one being Dr. Gordon's past where he was once a suspect as being the Jigsaw Killer after a man who survived one of the games mentioned his name.

[00:27:25] And it's explained that the Jigsaw Killer doesn't actually kill his victims, but he puts them in situations where they have to make horrible choices to survive.

[00:27:36] And we see there was the razor blades that the guy had to crawl through.

[00:27:42] There was the one where the code to get out was, was on the wall, but he was slathered in, like, a highly flammable gel.

[00:27:51] And he had just, like, a little tea candle to go around and look for the code.

[00:27:57] And then we also see Amanda, who had the reverse bear trap on her head.

[00:28:02] Picture behind me.

[00:28:04] And she literally just dug a man's intestines out of him while he was still alive to find the key and get out.

[00:28:18] It's a lot to take in.

[00:28:21] Yeah.

[00:28:22] Are you not entertained?

[00:28:24] No.

[00:28:25] And actually, during Amanda's test in the director's cut of the movie, it shows her actually sifting through the intestines to find the key.

[00:28:34] And the intestines were actually pig intestines covered in fake blood.

[00:28:39] Yeah.

[00:28:39] Gross.

[00:28:40] But, okay.

[00:28:42] Here we are.

[00:28:43] Yeah.

[00:28:45] Here we are.

[00:28:46] Now we're back in the bathroom with Lawrence and Adam.

[00:28:48] Lawrence is talking about his family.

[00:28:51] And he tosses Adam his wallet to, like, see pictures of his wife and daughter.

[00:28:58] And Adam finds, like, hidden under one of the pictures a Polaroid that was taken of them tied up.

[00:29:05] And then on the back, it said something about, like, X marks the spot.

[00:29:11] Something about turn off the lights and X marks the spot.

[00:29:14] Something.

[00:29:14] But he chooses not to tell Lawrence.

[00:29:17] Probably.

[00:29:17] He knows Lawrence is already flipping out about his family.

[00:29:20] And he doesn't want to upset him even more.

[00:29:24] So he kind of just keeps that to himself and tosses Lawrence's wallet back to him.

[00:29:30] And it's next.

[00:29:32] I have a question at this juncture.

[00:29:35] Yes.

[00:29:36] Is there any consistency to the size of this room?

[00:29:41] No.

[00:29:41] Because if you're passing things back and forth to each other, there's the tiny key that Lawrence has that he, like, lobs across the room so Adam can get it.

[00:29:50] Then it's tossed me the tape recorder and it's just a little, like, eh.

[00:29:55] How hard are we having to throw things at each other?

[00:29:58] Right.

[00:29:58] And also, when Lawrence wanted to get his phone, why didn't he take his shirt off to try to grab it?

[00:30:05] Yeah.

[00:30:06] Why was the first thought, you know what's got to go?

[00:30:08] This motherfucking foot.

[00:30:10] Yeah.

[00:30:13] Wild business.

[00:30:16] Well, because he needed the shirt to use as a tourniquet.

[00:30:21] I have comments about that when we get there.

[00:30:24] Okay.

[00:30:24] I have plenty to say.

[00:30:26] Okay.

[00:30:28] He would have passed out from shock.

[00:30:30] You can't cut through all that.

[00:30:33] One of Ken's comments was, I don't think you can do that to yourself.

[00:30:37] Although the man that hung 127 hours did it to his own arm.

[00:30:43] So I guess.

[00:30:45] If your survival instinct ratchets up.

[00:30:47] Here's.

[00:30:48] Let's do it now.

[00:30:49] He is a doctor.

[00:30:53] He tied his shirt in a knot one time.

[00:30:56] And thought, this is a tourniquet.

[00:31:00] If it was a tourniquet, you wouldn't have been bleeding like that, sir.

[00:31:03] Yeah.

[00:31:03] Where did you get your medical training?

[00:31:07] Amber and I went to a four-hour stop the bleed training.

[00:31:10] And we have learned much more about applying tourniquets properly.

[00:31:15] And he should have been.

[00:31:17] It should have been up on like his thigh.

[00:31:19] Yeah.

[00:31:20] Yeah.

[00:31:20] And he should have grabbed like a broken piece of pipe or something.

[00:31:24] Stub in there and twist it to tighten it.

[00:31:25] Like you can't.

[00:31:26] Yeah.

[00:31:26] You're going to hold the sleeve with your teeth and think that's enough.

[00:31:29] I would have passed out.

[00:31:31] Wake up.

[00:31:32] Just thinking about it.

[00:31:33] There's no way.

[00:31:35] There's no way.

[00:31:36] I love my family, but I hate pain.

[00:31:43] So I think after this is when we meet the detectives.

[00:31:47] We meet Detective David Tapp and David Steven Singh, played by Ken Leung.

[00:31:53] Leung.

[00:31:54] Leung.

[00:31:55] Ken Leung.

[00:31:57] Which I was happy to see him because I was like, man, my boy from Lost.

[00:32:01] So they're detectives.

[00:32:03] They're trying to catch a criminal.

[00:32:06] And you keep seeing them go to these crime scenes.

[00:32:10] Like Jackie described.

[00:32:12] And they get close to actually catching Jigsaw at one point.

[00:32:19] But Jigsaw and his fucking traps.

[00:32:24] I think David, he gets caught up at first.

[00:32:29] And then Ken goes after.

[00:32:31] He goes after Jigsaw.

[00:32:34] And in order for Jigsaw to escape, he hurts Ken.

[00:32:39] I mean, not Ken.

[00:32:40] He hurts Steven.

[00:32:41] And so then David has to make a choice to try to save Steven or go after him.

[00:32:48] But it's too late.

[00:32:50] Steven's dead anyways.

[00:32:51] So no bueno.

[00:32:53] And then it just looks like David takes it real rough.

[00:32:57] He is constantly still trying to find him.

[00:33:00] And it pretty much ends his career.

[00:33:03] But I think we looked at the math on Danny Glover a few episodes back.

[00:33:09] Because my man was already looking real old in this movie.

[00:33:14] Puffin' and puffin'.

[00:33:15] Yeah.

[00:33:15] I was like, this is so...

[00:33:19] What's the movie that he's in with Mel Gibson?

[00:33:22] Lethal Weapon.

[00:33:23] Right.

[00:33:23] He's like, I'm too old for this shit.

[00:33:26] Like, that's what he was given this whole movie.

[00:33:29] And it was just such a surprise to see him in the movie.

[00:33:34] I was like, what are you doing here?

[00:33:36] Yeah.

[00:33:38] Yeah.

[00:33:39] During that scene where there's like a booby-trapped shotgun that shoots Steven.

[00:33:46] Right?

[00:33:47] Is that who it is?

[00:33:48] Yes.

[00:33:49] Not Danny Glover.

[00:33:51] And then...

[00:33:52] So before that, Jigsaw, in his attempt to get away, it's like he has a victim.

[00:33:59] And there's like drills slowly going towards the guy's head.

[00:34:03] So Ken is just hollering at the TV.

[00:34:06] Shoot the motors.

[00:34:07] Or shoot the guy.

[00:34:09] Like, do something.

[00:34:10] We're just throwing a shotgun back and forth, essentially.

[00:34:14] And then the guy finally shoots the motors.

[00:34:16] They do listen to Ken in the end.

[00:34:19] But then he like slashes Danny Glover's throat.

[00:34:23] Ken literally goes, oh, bye-bye Danny Glover.

[00:34:27] Like, it is so sad.

[00:34:30] But like that whole scene, I was like, you all are taking way too long.

[00:34:35] Like, you just keep saying, put your hands up, blah, blah, blah.

[00:34:39] Like, shoot the motherfucker.

[00:34:42] That's what I said.

[00:34:43] Least trigger-happy cops I've ever seen in my life.

[00:34:46] Yeah.

[00:34:46] Yeah.

[00:34:48] You know he is a serial killer.

[00:34:50] He shouldn't have even got close enough to like turn the machine on.

[00:34:54] Yeah.

[00:34:56] It is justified to shoot him in the head.

[00:35:00] Double tap that ass.

[00:35:02] Yes.

[00:35:02] Definitely.

[00:35:05] So, go ahead.

[00:35:07] Did we meet his wife and daughter yet?

[00:35:11] Yeah.

[00:35:12] I think that's one of the flashbacks is we see, oh, when he's showing Adam the pictures

[00:35:19] of his daughter, we get a flashback of him.

[00:35:24] Like, this was the last thing I ever said to my daughter.

[00:35:26] And in the flashback scene, the daughter a couple of times is like, there's someone in

[00:35:32] my room.

[00:35:33] And they're like, oh, there's no one in your room.

[00:35:35] I'm like, listen to her.

[00:35:38] Right.

[00:35:38] Because there was, in fact, someone in her room.

[00:35:43] That's so scary.

[00:35:44] It's so scary.

[00:35:47] And so, you can see that there is tension between Lawrence and his wife.

[00:35:52] Like, he's just getting home really late, working really long hours.

[00:35:56] And his wife is kind of over it by this point.

[00:35:59] Allison, played by the beautiful Monica Potter.

[00:36:02] I did not.

[00:36:03] Again, another surprise.

[00:36:05] I said, Monica, what are you doing here?

[00:36:07] I didn't know you were in this one either.

[00:36:11] They really did get some quality actors.

[00:36:14] They were going to be actors in the movie.

[00:36:16] Star-studded cast.

[00:36:17] Michael Emerson is in it.

[00:36:19] Another lostie.

[00:36:21] Dina Meyer, who, if you love Pretty Little Liars, you'll know who that is.

[00:36:27] Wait, actually, you know what?

[00:36:29] It might be Melrose Place.

[00:36:32] Let me see what else she's been in.

[00:36:33] Because I don't know if she was on Pretty Little Liars now.

[00:36:37] Oh, Starship Troopers.

[00:36:39] That's a throwback.

[00:36:40] She was definitely in that one.

[00:36:43] So at some point, Adam uses the, like, turn the lights off, X marks the spot clue.

[00:36:49] So he's like, hey, I'm just going to turn these lights off.

[00:36:52] And then there's a big, giant X on the wall.

[00:36:54] And then Lawrence is immediately suspicious.

[00:36:57] Like, how the fuck do you know that?

[00:36:59] Right.

[00:36:59] So Lawrence breaks where the X is.

[00:37:02] And it's a little box.

[00:37:03] And it has cigarettes and a bullet in it.

[00:37:06] Was the cell phone in there, too?

[00:37:08] Yes.

[00:37:08] Okay.

[00:37:09] But it couldn't make any outbound calls.

[00:37:12] Yeah.

[00:37:12] Which, according to my research, the FCC rules require every phone that can access a network

[00:37:21] to be able to dial 911, regardless of any reason that normal service may have been disconnected,

[00:37:27] including deactivated or blocked phones.

[00:37:30] So that was one of them.

[00:37:31] Was this always a rule?

[00:37:33] I believe so, because it's like an emergency thing.

[00:37:37] Not.

[00:37:38] Well, then, saw would have never happened.

[00:37:41] Ever.

[00:37:44] Because it is, because at first I was like, oh, they just must not get service in the bathroom.

[00:37:48] But then later on, they're able to call the cell phone.

[00:37:52] Like, Zep.

[00:37:53] Spoiler alert.

[00:37:55] Zep, who has his wife and daughter hostage, is able to call the cell phone so that he can

[00:38:02] talk to his wife and daughter.

[00:38:03] Well, he even says, like, when he tries to use the phone, he goes, this phone is for receiving

[00:38:08] calls, not making them.

[00:38:09] And I'm like, how did you suss that out?

[00:38:11] Because my first thought would have been, there's no service in here.

[00:38:14] Yeah.

[00:38:15] And Ken did say, ooh, a flippy phone.

[00:38:20] So now Lawrence is very suspicious of Adam.

[00:38:23] And finally, Adam just cops to it, because now, like, Lawrence thinks, like, you're in

[00:38:28] on it, blah, blah, blah.

[00:38:30] And Adam's like, no, like, there was a photo in your wallet.

[00:38:33] I was trying not to show you.

[00:38:34] But it had that clue on the back.

[00:38:36] That's how I knew to do that.

[00:38:38] And then also there was, like, a note in the box that said, like, essentially it was oddly

[00:38:48] coded.

[00:38:48] But if you dip the cigarette in the dead man's blood and give it to Adam, it'll kill him.

[00:38:56] But there were two cigarettes.

[00:38:57] So Lawrence dipped one in the blood, but then ended up giving Adam the clean cigarette.

[00:39:03] And Adam.

[00:39:06] So overdramatic.

[00:39:09] Zero commitment to the bit.

[00:39:11] Zero.

[00:39:13] He was like, oh.

[00:39:16] But they had done something to make it so that you, like, that they thought their captor couldn't hear or see them.

[00:39:24] He turned the light off.

[00:39:25] Yeah, to make that plan.

[00:39:27] So jokes on them.

[00:39:31] And so when they figured out that it was not an Oscar worthy, an Oscar worthy performance, Adam got electrocuted real bad.

[00:39:41] And I was like, how did Zepp know?

[00:39:46] But then later on, I was like, oh, it was Jigsaw laying there.

[00:39:51] Right.

[00:39:51] He had ears on the ground, literally.

[00:39:55] I got confused when I realized Zepp was behind.

[00:39:59] Like when we find out Zepp is behind everything.

[00:40:02] Well, I was like, is this mirror in is this bathroom in their house?

[00:40:07] I got so confused because I'm like, where is he right now watching all this?

[00:40:13] Because he was like in a room with a TV at first.

[00:40:16] And so I thought he was at their house.

[00:40:19] I was just really confused as to like what was happening and where we were.

[00:40:24] Yeah.

[00:40:26] And at some point, where did the photos that Adam took come from?

[00:40:32] The trash bag.

[00:40:33] Yeah, they were.

[00:40:34] I think they.

[00:40:35] Yeah.

[00:40:36] He found them pretty early and didn't share.

[00:40:40] Yeah.

[00:40:41] Yeah.

[00:40:43] Because we find out that Adam was a photographer and had been following Dr. Lawrence for a while.

[00:40:49] Because when Dr. Lawrence, so we do see a scene where Zepp actually comes in.

[00:40:57] Because he's been hiding the little girl's closet, which I kind of feel like out of all the places, why not attack the wife first?

[00:41:03] Like, yeah, I wouldn't bother with the daughter, but whatever.

[00:41:06] So he attacks both of them and ties them up.

[00:41:10] And then he makes the call to Dr. Lawrence to let him know, like, I have your wife and your daughter.

[00:41:17] And, you know, the daughter is very scared.

[00:41:20] They all sound very scared.

[00:41:21] And pretty much from there, this is when Dr. Lawrence just like starts to lose his collective mind at this point, you know.

[00:41:31] Yeah.

[00:41:31] And he feels really guilty that he didn't really appreciate his family.

[00:41:36] And he, you know, he hears his daughter say, like, she's scared.

[00:41:39] And I really felt for them because, like, it's a kid.

[00:41:43] But at some point, that kid started to really irritate me.

[00:41:49] And the wife really irritated me towards the end because I'm like, what are we doing?

[00:41:54] Where are those survival instincts?

[00:41:56] Yeah.

[00:41:57] Because why are you keeping this man alive?

[00:41:59] And you are in your own home.

[00:42:03] So you know it better than this man who has you captive.

[00:42:06] Right.

[00:42:07] Why is the little girl just hanging out there?

[00:42:09] Like.

[00:42:10] She doesn't have home alone instincts.

[00:42:12] That's for damn sure.

[00:42:14] And that's what distracts the mom long enough to, for Zep to get a good knock in and knock the gun out of her hands.

[00:42:25] So it's like, if that little girl just had an ounce, just run out of the room.

[00:42:31] Right.

[00:42:32] I don't care where you go.

[00:42:32] I would have ran while mom is holding.

[00:42:35] Yeah.

[00:42:36] Or I would have told my daughter, run and hide.

[00:42:39] Yeah.

[00:42:39] Go into our secret place.

[00:42:40] Or go get the neighbors.

[00:42:42] Yeah.

[00:42:42] Go next door and call 911 something.

[00:42:46] But where in this whole time?

[00:42:48] I got very confused because while this is all happening, Detective David, I don't know if he's in a crack house.

[00:42:56] I don't know if he's in a van.

[00:42:58] He's looking at blippy blips on a screen.

[00:43:02] I don't know what's going on.

[00:43:03] And then he busts into the house.

[00:43:06] Like.

[00:43:07] And he does a horrible job as well.

[00:43:10] Yeah.

[00:43:11] Yeah.

[00:43:11] Because.

[00:43:12] He does not just shoot this man.

[00:43:15] Yeah.

[00:43:15] No one is shooting Zep.

[00:43:17] He's like.

[00:43:18] He's just wrestling around with Zep.

[00:43:21] And the wife, why is she not going and getting the gun you just dropped?

[00:43:25] And why is she still on the phone with Larry Lawrence?

[00:43:30] And why is she holding the phone like this across her body?

[00:43:32] Right.

[00:43:33] Because that bothered me too.

[00:43:35] Baby girl, hang up with your husband.

[00:43:37] Take care of business.

[00:43:39] Shot to the head.

[00:43:40] Or if you're scared, the belly.

[00:43:43] He will be very injured.

[00:43:45] Yeah.

[00:43:45] But he'll still be alive for a while.

[00:43:47] Give you time to run.

[00:43:48] Like.

[00:43:49] What are we doing?

[00:43:50] The best thing she did.

[00:43:51] Was that pair of scissors that was in her drawer for some reason.

[00:43:56] And stabbed him.

[00:43:58] It was a mess.

[00:44:00] And then Zep.

[00:44:02] He.

[00:44:02] He.

[00:44:03] He.

[00:44:04] Pitches out of there because.

[00:44:07] What happened is that it reached their time 6 p.m.

[00:44:10] And he was supposed to like kill the family.

[00:44:13] Right.

[00:44:14] Must kill Larry.

[00:44:15] Right.

[00:44:16] So he.

[00:44:17] He abandons the family.

[00:44:18] He's like fuck it.

[00:44:19] And he goes to go kill Lawrence and Adam.

[00:44:23] And so of course Detective David tries to follow him.

[00:44:27] Again.

[00:44:27] Still don't know where we're at.

[00:44:29] Alley.

[00:44:30] Trap house.

[00:44:31] I don't know.

[00:44:32] Yeah.

[00:44:33] How far away.

[00:44:34] Well it was far because now they're in a really weird car.

[00:44:38] Driving scene.

[00:44:39] It was very like early 2000s.

[00:44:43] The cuts.

[00:44:43] The music.

[00:44:44] Felt very weirdly intense.

[00:44:47] It reminded me of when Cruella de Vil is driving.

[00:44:52] And her eyes are all spirals.

[00:44:53] Just like.

[00:44:55] It was very weird.

[00:44:57] I thought.

[00:44:58] I'm like they should have put it like a warning.

[00:45:00] If I had like epilepsy or you know was prone to seizures.

[00:45:04] That would have gotten me.

[00:45:05] So at this point now Zep and Detective David are in a tussle.

[00:45:10] And they're limping.

[00:45:11] And they're limping.

[00:45:13] It's a mess.

[00:45:14] It's very much this.

[00:45:16] It was bizarre.

[00:45:17] Yeah.

[00:45:18] It was.

[00:45:18] It was the worst fight scene I've seen in a movie that's not a comedy in a long time.

[00:45:24] I still to this day struggle with how Danny Glover got shot.

[00:45:30] Right.

[00:45:31] It's so high up in the chest.

[00:45:33] Yes.

[00:45:33] It was weird.

[00:45:35] I don't know what was going on there.

[00:45:37] Yep.

[00:45:38] So now as Ken would say bye bye Danny Glover.

[00:45:41] He's dead.

[00:45:42] Part two.

[00:45:43] And part two.

[00:45:44] And now we see Zep heading back.

[00:45:48] And this is so because wonderful Allison was given a play by play of her cries on the phone

[00:45:57] to Lawrence instead of I don't know say hold on or hang up.

[00:46:01] Yeah.

[00:46:01] He loses his collectivism because the phone starts ringing again because I think Zep is

[00:46:06] calling to tell him like.

[00:46:08] I think Allison's calling him.

[00:46:09] Oh Allison you're right.

[00:46:10] Yeah.

[00:46:10] And he can't get to the phone and so that's when he says I'm going to cut my foot off.

[00:46:16] And Adam I do like Adam's acting because it was very real except I would have thrown up

[00:46:21] watching someone do that.

[00:46:24] And Carrie's acting as well like when he is like losing his shit because he thinks his family

[00:46:31] is in danger like.

[00:46:33] Yeah.

[00:46:34] You feel that.

[00:46:35] Top notch.

[00:46:35] Yeah.

[00:46:36] That like bonkers.

[00:46:39] Like end of the line energy.

[00:46:42] Yeah.

[00:46:42] Yeah.

[00:46:44] So now we get the famous sawing off his own foot without a tourniquet.

[00:46:52] And but we find out like he is still going to try and help Adam like he he's like okay

[00:47:00] like I can go get help now.

[00:47:04] How?

[00:47:04] How is he going to get help?

[00:47:07] Who knows?

[00:47:08] Because it looks like at the end Jigsaw is going to come get his ass anyway.

[00:47:12] You can't walk.

[00:47:14] You can't stand.

[00:47:16] At that point he doesn't know that the dead body is not dead in the middle of the room.

[00:47:21] But and they think it's Zep because one of Adam's surveillance pictures has Zep standing

[00:47:27] in his daughter's room.

[00:47:28] So and of course Dr. Lawrence knows and recognizes him because he works at the hospital.

[00:47:35] Right.

[00:47:36] And so Zep comes hobbling in and but Adam the way he put the fucking pain on Zep with

[00:47:44] that toilet lid.

[00:47:46] Oh my God.

[00:47:47] Masterful.

[00:47:48] Imagine.

[00:47:49] Yeah.

[00:47:50] It was he all the rage and so much so that Dr. Lawrence is like reaches out.

[00:47:55] He's like my brotherhood.

[00:47:56] My brother in Christ.

[00:47:58] You need to stop now.

[00:48:01] It's it's over.

[00:48:02] He dead dead.

[00:48:04] And that's how I feel like if I see a roach or anything palmetto bugs put a pair of Tim's

[00:48:11] on because we about to stomp a bitch tonight.

[00:48:15] And well right before Zep comes in Dr. Lawrence shoots at him like you think he's going to

[00:48:23] like kill him to fulfill the prophecy and instead he just shoots him in the arm so it looks like

[00:48:30] he killed him.

[00:48:31] Right.

[00:48:31] But I the whole time like I forgot that Adam pops back up but I was just like it's after

[00:48:37] like you didn't follow the rules.

[00:48:39] So even if you shot him now like it's not going to matter.

[00:48:42] Right.

[00:48:43] Yes.

[00:48:44] The rules.

[00:48:45] I'm with you.

[00:48:46] The rules.

[00:48:47] Rules of horror movies.

[00:48:49] But like then he's he Dr. Lawrence is like okay I'm going to go down the yellow brick

[00:48:56] road and see if I can meet the wizard and leaves Adam and then all like the way I would have

[00:49:04] shit my pants in that moment and then all of a sudden here comes it I was very confused

[00:49:09] as a watcher.

[00:49:10] Like what's happening.

[00:49:11] Is this the end credits and they're showing like the the extras.

[00:49:15] Why is that man up.

[00:49:16] Where's that man come from.

[00:49:17] Who that.

[00:49:18] And what's he pulling off of his hand his face.

[00:49:21] And also Jigsaw the guy who plays Jigsaw and the actor Michael Emerson.

[00:49:28] They don't look too different at the in my mind in that with like all the stuff on his

[00:49:34] face I was like.

[00:49:35] Zep got up from that bitch.

[00:49:36] What is happening.

[00:49:40] What is happening.

[00:49:41] Oh this motherfucker was on the floor the whole time.

[00:49:44] You got to be kidding me.

[00:49:46] You play too much Jigsaw you play.

[00:49:50] I can't.

[00:49:52] I mean for that twist alone that he was in the room with them the entire time like slow

[00:50:00] clap.

[00:50:01] He's playing a long game on that one.

[00:50:02] Yeah.

[00:50:03] You know that room smelled like farts and giggles in there like.

[00:50:06] Like I would have definitely.

[00:50:09] Yeah.

[00:50:10] Nasty.

[00:50:10] Nasty business.

[00:50:12] That is commitment.

[00:50:13] Commitment to the bitch.

[00:50:14] Yeah.

[00:50:15] If I'm dying.

[00:50:16] I'm going to all the places I wanted to visit.

[00:50:19] I'm sleeping around.

[00:50:20] I'm having delicious food.

[00:50:22] I'm not wasting my last days on earth laying in a pool of nasty fake blood or maybe real

[00:50:29] blood on a dirty ass bathroom floor smelling farts and giggles.

[00:50:35] Not me.

[00:50:40] Oh.

[00:50:41] Oh.

[00:50:42] Toman Balm.

[00:50:43] Mm-hmm.

[00:50:43] I do really love him as Jigsaw.

[00:50:45] Jigsaw.

[00:50:46] Also in the middle of all of this.

[00:50:50] All of these things that are happening.

[00:50:52] There's also a puppet on a tricycle.

[00:50:56] What is that?

[00:50:59] When Adam.

[00:51:01] There's a scene that we forgot to talk about where we get a little bit of backstory.

[00:51:05] Not much.

[00:51:06] But that's when we learn Adam is the photographer.

[00:51:08] He's in his dark room.

[00:51:10] And somehow I guess he passes out or something.

[00:51:15] Maybe he was drugged.

[00:51:16] And he everything's kind of the lights are turned off.

[00:51:21] He's using his camera the flash of his camera to kind of see because he feels like someone's

[00:51:26] there.

[00:51:26] And he sees this fucking puppet laughing very maniacally on his like where did that come

[00:51:37] from?

[00:51:38] Do you know how and he starts to just hit it?

[00:51:42] I would not have hit.

[00:51:43] I would I would have left there.

[00:51:45] I'm not even the you can have the apartment puppet.

[00:51:48] It's yours.

[00:51:51] I just don't understand where the puppet fits in.

[00:51:57] To the story.

[00:51:59] Like I don't know.

[00:52:01] It's the the scary facade.

[00:52:03] So you don't know who the killer is.

[00:52:05] You got to have something creepy there.

[00:52:06] My question is how many of that puppet are there?

[00:52:10] Thank you.

[00:52:11] And are they all built differently?

[00:52:12] Because right one writing a tricycle.

[00:52:15] Right.

[00:52:15] But one small enough to fit in that little chair.

[00:52:18] Thank you.

[00:52:18] I'm glad you're asking the real hard, hard questions.

[00:52:22] Because this is my like, what is it?

[00:52:26] Like my Connie Chung moment.

[00:52:28] Like this is the information that people want.

[00:52:33] Right.

[00:52:34] Well, did you know that puppet has a name?

[00:52:37] Oh, my God.

[00:52:39] His name is Billy.

[00:52:40] The puppet.

[00:52:42] Apparently, I believe it was.

[00:52:46] Who is the director?

[00:52:48] James Wan.

[00:52:49] I believe James Wan had built it or made it like a while ago.

[00:52:54] And he was just like, you know what this movie needs?

[00:52:57] My puppet Billy.

[00:52:58] Billy made him out of clay and paper mache.

[00:53:02] And his eyeballs are ping pong balls.

[00:53:06] That's.

[00:53:07] Well, isn't that sweet?

[00:53:08] Right.

[00:53:08] Well, all I know is that Billy didn't get budget in the next few movies with a good lace front.

[00:53:14] Like in the first movie, because I've seen varying pictures of his hair and his whole demeanor.

[00:53:21] And he looks different all the time.

[00:53:23] Yeah.

[00:53:24] But very scary.

[00:53:27] Very scary.

[00:53:28] Definitely.

[00:53:29] So the movie ends by Jigsaw getting up, tearing off part of his head where the prosthetic brains blown out.

[00:53:40] Yeah.

[00:53:41] Yeah.

[00:53:42] But like, latex.

[00:53:45] And then, so he just gets up and just kind of shuffles off like an old man does.

[00:53:53] And then he just turns around as he's closing the door and like turning the light off.

[00:53:58] And he's like, game over.

[00:54:00] And then Adam's just screaming.

[00:54:03] Distraught.

[00:54:06] And that is, that is Saw.

[00:54:09] Yeah.

[00:54:11] And we do the Dr. Gordon.

[00:54:14] I have not watched the, the subsequent movie with Dr. Gordon in it, but he does survive because he does return for another movie.

[00:54:24] I think it's Saw 7.

[00:54:26] Yeah.

[00:54:27] That's what I was going to say is we know he lives via the sequels.

[00:54:31] So are we to assume that he just didn't go get help for Adam?

[00:54:34] Like he said he was gonna, like, we're left on this.

[00:54:37] Like, it's not a happy ending for Adam.

[00:54:40] He is stuck in this room.

[00:54:42] Yeah, we don't know.

[00:54:43] But there's nothing really wrong with Adam.

[00:54:45] Well, I mean, like he took a gunshot to the shoulder, but I feel like it was like clean through.

[00:54:52] Like it wasn't like he was bleeding out or anything.

[00:54:55] But I mean, he's chained to a wall with no food or clean water.

[00:54:59] Well, that's what I'm saying.

[00:54:59] Like he could have survived for a while for Dr. Lawrence to go get help and come back.

[00:55:05] Dr. Lawrence goes in the shock.

[00:55:07] But luckily they find him.

[00:55:11] And they only know about Dr. Lawrence because no one else has said that Adam is missing that they know of.

[00:55:17] They don't.

[00:55:17] They just know.

[00:55:19] Well, that's not true.

[00:55:20] His wife knows that Adam is there.

[00:55:23] But they find Lawrence.

[00:55:25] They take him to the hospital.

[00:55:26] He has gone into shock.

[00:55:28] Almost sepsis.

[00:55:30] They're trying.

[00:55:31] It's life or death for a while.

[00:55:33] Then he goes into a coma.

[00:55:34] By the time he wakes up, he remembers about Adam.

[00:55:37] He's like, did you guys find Adam?

[00:55:39] And they're like, Adam.

[00:55:40] And by the time they find Adam, he dead because he bled out.

[00:55:44] Infection.

[00:55:45] No bueno.

[00:55:46] Did you just write an extended cut of the movie?

[00:55:50] I did.

[00:55:50] I did.

[00:55:51] Thank you.

[00:55:52] You both.

[00:56:07] I slipped through another time crack because I specifically was telling ChatGPT, I'm like, write some of these notes.

[00:56:14] I'm doing Saw from 2005.

[00:56:16] And this bitch said, no, it's 2004.

[00:56:19] I said, so what not?

[00:56:20] So apparently, according to Google, when I asked what happens to Adam and Saw, spoilers if you don't want to hear them.

[00:56:28] The climax of Saw 2 ended up right back at the bathroom trap where Adam's corpse and Gordon's foot can be seen.

[00:56:35] And Saw 3 revealed that Amanda returned to the room to mercy kill Adam via suffocation.

[00:56:42] How did Amanda get there?

[00:56:44] Well, in subsequent movies, Amanda is Jigsaw's apprentice.

[00:56:48] Because you know, there's like that line where she's like, he saved me.

[00:56:52] So then he becomes, she becomes a Jigsaw apologist.

[00:56:56] He was like, sure, I'll help you save others.

[00:56:59] Oh boy.

[00:57:01] I still don't know what Adam really did that, like, he did not deserve to die.

[00:57:06] Wrong place, wrong time.

[00:57:07] Yeah.

[00:57:08] Let's look at some of these fun facts we've got left.

[00:57:11] The film's concept was born from writer Lee Winnell's experience of medical testing for a potential neurological issue, inspiring the trap-based storyline.

[00:57:22] And after finishing film school, Australian director James Wan and writer Lee Winnell,

[00:57:36] they wanted to write and fund a film so that this is what we were talking about, that the inspiration that they needed came after watching the low-budget independent film, The Blair Witch Project.

[00:57:47] Another film that also inspired them to finance the film themselves was Darren Aronofsky's Pie.

[00:57:54] The two thought the cheapest script to shoot would involve two actors in one room.

[00:57:59] And boy, did they do that.

[00:58:00] Well, to make the actors feel the characters' emotions, the bathroom scenes were filmed in chronological order.

[00:58:09] And Juan also used different camera movements to reflect the characters' emotions, such as steady shots for Dr. Gordon and handheld shots for Adam.

[00:58:18] Oh, that's smart.

[00:58:20] So, there were no rehearsals prior to the beginning of shooting the movie, and everybody just showed up on set the first day and went for it.

[00:58:28] Wow.

[00:58:29] Okay.

[00:58:30] Interesting.

[00:58:31] And due to the lack of footage, Juan and editor Kevin Grutter, sorry if I said your name wrong, had to get creative in post-production.

[00:58:41] So, they cobbled together shots, used stills, and cut to newspaper clippings and surveillance cameras to fill in gaps.

[00:58:49] Yeah, I believe that.

[00:58:52] And then Tobin Bell was really working for that paycheck.

[00:58:56] He spent most of the film lying motionless on the floor for hours during takes.

[00:59:02] I would have tooted.

[00:59:08] Well, and I saw, I think it was on Reddit, where someone's like, why didn't they just get a mannequin?

[00:59:13] Like, why did they make this actor lay on the floor for 18 days straight?

[00:59:17] And someone was like, it was probably cheaper to have him lay on the floor than to get, like, a realistic mannequin made with their budget.

[00:59:26] Oh, my God.

[00:59:28] I feel like they didn't even have, they never had to show, like, be near the body again.

[00:59:32] Yeah.

[00:59:32] Because, again, like Ever said, the size of this room was changing constantly.

[00:59:36] So, I mean.

[00:59:40] Yeah, well, and that's Saw.

[00:59:42] We did it.

[00:59:42] We did it.

[00:59:43] Woo-hoo.

[00:59:43] If you have commentary, if you want to let us know some fun facts about Saw or questions you may have about this movie, hit us up at NoMoreLateFees on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube, and Threads.

[00:59:59] And let's do these ratings, ladies.

[01:00:03] Amber, what is your current day rating of Saw?

[01:00:08] I think I'm going to stick with a five-day rental.

[01:00:13] Yeah.

[01:00:13] I'm not going to buy it, but I'll watch it.

[01:00:17] I am the same.

[01:00:18] Okay.

[01:00:20] Yeah, five-day.

[01:00:21] I don't hate it.

[01:00:21] I think it is very clever.

[01:00:24] It is very well acted.

[01:00:26] And it is very low budget.

[01:00:28] I never want to see this again.

[01:00:32] I just don't.

[01:00:35] I feel like maybe if I saw it when it first came out, maybe.

[01:00:41] But now, yeah, I was bored.

[01:00:45] And then I was horrified for a few minutes.

[01:00:48] And then I was annoyed.

[01:00:49] Those were my feelings.

[01:00:50] So it's a same-day rental for me.

[01:00:52] But you guys already know.

[01:00:54] I am not a horror girl.

[01:00:57] Horror.

[01:00:58] Horror.

[01:01:01] So there you got it.

[01:01:04] If you have any feelings one way or the other about Saw,

[01:01:09] or you want to suggest movies for next spooky season,

[01:01:14] hit us up at our quick drop, 909-601-6653.

[01:01:18] You can also text us at that number.

[01:01:21] You can twat us at the Twitters, hem us at the threads,

[01:01:24] and you can be featured on a future episode.

[01:01:27] And don't forget to tune in next week as we rewind back to our National Treasure episode.

[01:01:33] And just a reminder, this isn't the second National Treasure movie,

[01:01:39] despite how much I look for it during this episode.

[01:01:42] I love this episode so much.

[01:01:44] The confusion.

[01:01:48] And a big shout out for Amber.

[01:01:51] Hello!

[01:01:52] Thanks, Amber.

[01:01:52] For stopping by.

[01:01:53] Thanks for having me again.

[01:01:55] Pleasure as always.

[01:01:56] Thanks for staying up late for us.

[01:02:00] A bull night.

[01:02:02] And as always, be kind and rewind!

[01:02:07] I thought you were having a seizure.