Clueless

[00:00:00] As if we'd let our five-year anniversary pass without a banger of a movie. This week, we're celebrating Clueless on its 30th anniversary, a film that defined fashion, slang, and teen comedy for a generation. From a liar, this is an a liar, to matchmaking mayhem, let's roll with the homies and revisit this totally iconic classic. Welcome to the No More Late Fees podcast. I'm Jackie.

[00:00:28] And I'm Danielle, and we're two best friends and ex-blockbuster employees who've been bringing you late 90s and early 2000s movie nostalgia for five whole years. Welcome to season five, y'all. And what better way to celebrate than with the iconic Clueless. But before we dive in, let's get into some housekeeping. I don't know what that accent was.

[00:00:55] I hate it. Ever since you scared me, I'm just going with it. If you love the podcast and you want to support us, here's a few ways that you can. Help us out by leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Your reviews really help us grow and keep the nostalgia alive. And while you're there, don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. We've got plenty

[00:01:23] more deep dives into your favorite Y2K movies coming up. And do you want to show off your love for nostalgia? Check out our No More Late Fees merch at nomorlatefees.redbubble.com. From movie-inspired designs to podcast swag, we've got something for every movie lover. So before we dive in, we just want to say a heartfelt thank you to every listener, guest, supporter, and rewind-worthy moment over the past five years. From She's All That to Scream to White Chicks and everything in between,

[00:01:53] thank you for riding at dawn with us. This nostalgic wave has been amazing and we love every single one of you. And we can't wait for more. It's going to be fantastic. We're going to be 20 years in with, like, so reminiscing about the 90s and 2000s. If you think we're tired, well, we are tired because we're millennials, but if you think you're

[00:02:17] tired of doing the podcast, you are sorely mistaken. And we'll be here right here every week for you. Yes, we will. Even if it's just one listener. Yep. So Danielle, as if I need to ask, but tell us what Clueless is about. Sure. Clueless follows Cher Horowitz, a wealthy, fashion-obsessed teen queen living in Beverly

[00:02:43] Hills between matchmaking her teachers and giving makeovers. She finds herself navigating popularity, friendship, and a surprising crush. Inspired by Jane Austen's Emma, this movie redefined the team rom-com and remains a pop culture icon. The movie stars Alicia Silverstone, Paul Rudd, Stacey Dash, Brittany Murphy, Donald Faison, and Elisa Donovan. The movie was also written and

[00:03:08] directed by Amy Heckerling, and currently you can watch it on YouTube for free with ads. But before we start, let's get into our ratings rewind. So you know the drill. Before we get into the movie, we'll reveal the rating our Y2K versions of ourselves we give. Then at the end, we'll see if our current selves agree with our initial rating. Our scale consists of would buy it, would buy it again. The best would plan repeat.

[00:03:37] Five-day rental. Would watch again. Two-day rental. Eh, okay, but nothing to write home about. And same-day rental. Amber wore it, so it's trash. Yes. Full-on Monet. So Danielle, what is your Y2K rating of Clueless? This movie changed my life, man. Changed my fucking life.

[00:04:02] It's a would buy. Without question, without hesitation, like, there are movies that I remember watching because I liked it, and then there's just movies that it's like before that movie and after that movie. Before Christ, after Christ, before Clueless is. Before Cher, after Cher? Yes. Essentially. And this was that movie for me, for sure. We'll get into more about the feels. How about you?

[00:04:29] Same. Would buy it, would buy it again. I remember exactly what theater I saw it in. I don't think I remember who I saw it with, but I was definitely at the Dollar Theater in Coral Springs. Wow, you waited till the Dollar Theater? I don't think, I don't remember seeing ads for this movie, and so it was kind of like, my mom's like, oh, there's this teen movie, let's just go to the Dollar Theater and see it. And then I was like, how was I sleeping on this?

[00:04:54] Amy Heckerling did say that she was really excited when Paramount eventually picked up the movie because at the time, you know, it owned MTV and that it was going to hit her target audience. And boy, was she right, because for me, I could not wait. I saw it. I saw it at the Dead Mall. Oh, yeah. With my mom. I had seen MTV was doing so many promotions for the movie. Like they had different commercials for it. And they had done a special. And I remember seeing the special and I was like,

[00:05:21] I got to see this movie. So I asked my mom, because before anybody else, she was my BFF. So she, I did see so many movies with her. I really, before you, I didn't recall ever really going to a movie with any friends. Like maybe I might go with my cousins or something like that, but it was usually the thing that I did with my mom. So we went to see it. I remember sitting in the theater and I just like, really remember how it felt watching this movie and seeing all the

[00:05:48] stuff unfold. And I felt myself changing. I, you were changed for good. I was, I was so happy to watch that movie. And my mom actually introduced me to Fast Times at Richmond, Richmond High. And because I loved all those teen movies from the eighties, this was like, set me up for, you know,

[00:06:12] John Hughes vibes. I felt like it was the predecessor to those, to those movies. Amy Heckerling did, did she write, I think, did she write Fast Times at Richmond High? Because I know Cameron Crowe directed it. So. No, she directed it. I think it's the other way around. Is it? He wrote it and she directed it? I think so. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So it, it does feel like brother, sister movies, essentially,

[00:06:38] but for different time periods. Brighter. It became more like shiny, glossy, bright colors. We went from like reality bites to like clueless and it was a whole new world. And it was the catalyst really for all of the, the modern day adaptations that were to come in the late nineties and early two thousands that we all love. Everyone's like, Oh, this was based on Emma. We need more of these.

[00:07:06] And I love that we're kicking off the first episode of our fifth season with this movie, because I remember when we did empire records, our first episode of our entire podcast. And it was talking about how the studio that made empire records, I think they turned down clueless. So, cause they had empire records and those are two different, it's two different generations. But, you know, like this is, I feel like a millennial movie. I know that Gen X

[00:07:34] was a part, like they saw this movie and it was a part of their existence, existence. But like you said, it looks shinier and brighter. It was like a totally different vibe happening. And for, I think for especially elder millennials, this was like the kickoff of us becoming teens and stuff at the time. It, I felt seen because Stacy dashes, you know, playing Dion. This was the first time that I saw a black

[00:08:00] female character that yes, she was the best friend, but she had her own storyline, her own autonomy. She wasn't ever shares like quote unquote sidekick per se and her and Mary, like also a black teen relationship. Yes. They were toxic as fuck at times, but, and then just, it's just never talked about. Like I could probably pull a few microaggressions that happened because it was a

[00:08:27] white lady writing this movie. I'm not going to gloss over that, but it was pretty damn good considering. Yeah. And like coming from even just the perspective of during that time, we were getting like the, the gangster movies where you're getting like the boys in the hood and even like Friday, which is like from a, a legit experience, but then being able to see like, Hey, there's this

[00:08:50] affluent black female character, like not all of our experiences are the same. Right. Black people are not a monolith and there's a spectrum. Dion was like our first real BAP, I guess you could say black, you know, American princess without again, having to play side to share both equally eight with their fits. Yeah. It was just, it was great. All right. So let's talk about budget. So the movie had a

[00:09:18] budget of $12 million and it grossed $88 million worldwide. I don't know why that just doesn't feel right. Like you're telling me I am using whatever it takes as the barometer for everything now. They had a budget of $30 million and the movie is a literal piece of dog shit. And this movie had less than half that budget. Yeah. And eight every moment of screen time. Yeah. Surprisingly,

[00:09:45] and we'll get into it, the budget for the costumes wasn't as much as we would think. So I think that also helped also the majority of the start there are, there is no star in this movie. This movie made stars. There were no, there was no big star holding the amount of money. These were a lot of no names. So I can imagine that cut on costs as well. The idea for clueless first originated as a television pilot

[00:10:12] in 93. So writer and director Amy Heckerlin said that 20th century Fox said they wanted to show, they wanted a show about teenagers, but not the nerds. They wanted it to be about the cool kids. So she thought the most successful character in anything she'd ever done was Jeff Spicoli in Fast Times. So people think that's because he was stoned and a surfer, but that's not it. It was because he was so positive. And so that got, you know, that clicked for her. And she's like, I think I'm going to write this character who's positive and happy. And that turned into Cher.

[00:10:41] I love that. Yeah, me too. And again, this film was a surprise sleeper hit. It opened July 19th, 1995 and grows 10 over $10 million in its opening weekend. And it was only second to Apollo 13. Lil Raj, Lil Raj. Let's hear it. Lil Roger, Lil Roger. I think when he gives bad reviews of movies we love, he should be Lil Roger.

[00:11:11] Roger Ebert of the Chicago Sun-Times gave the film three and a half out of four stars. Janet Maslin of the New York Times noted, even if Clueless runs out of gas before it's over, most of it is as eye-catching and cheery as its star. Its star. I'll just think about that. And the box office success of this movie brought the, again, it made stars, brought the then largely unknown Silverstone to international attention. And it earned her a $10 million multi-picture deal with Columbia TriStar.

[00:11:40] Is that why we get excess baggage? It is. It was, you know, I'm very surprised at how much knowledge I had about like the productions of these movies back then before the internet. But I very much remember that yes, she did get that deal and she decided to produce excess baggage. And she was really trying to get away from being kind of typecast as Cher. So you could see that in a lot of the roles that she ended up taking.

[00:12:04] And unfortunately, just things like I feel like her career trajectory should be studied because it doesn't make any sense how it ended up happening this way. Because excess baggage was a bomb. A lot of people complained, especially since a lot of people wanted that Clueless feel, like me included. And then she played Batgirl and that was, that whole movie was torn to bits. Yes. Yeah. And she was fat shamed for that. Yeah.

[00:12:32] So that was difficult. And I think Blast from the Past is in there too, but I love that movie. So I have no shade to throw at that one. Great choice. But oh, Love's Labor Lost with Matthew Lillard. She chose to do and it didn't do well. I mean, I can understand like if you're trying to be a serious actor and I think, is that a Shakespeare play? I think it is. I think so.

[00:12:57] I could be wrong. And Kevin Brana was directing it. So yeah, it makes sense, but it just did not, it didn't go anywhere. And I believe she turned down some good roles for it to do that movie. She did in that right after Clueless, she did The Babysitter. That was a, that was a bop though. I, I feel like in my brain, The Babysitter and The Crush are like the same movie. Maybe that's what it is. Yeah. Maybe I, now I'm like, have I seen The Babysitter? Did I think it was The Crush?

[00:13:26] The Crush is where she, it's like Lolita, like modern day telling of Lolita. Well, what happens with Babysitter? I don't know. Let's look and see. Don't worry about it. I don't, I ain't seen it. I kind of want to watch it just, well, I mean, it's in our timeframe. We will have to watch it at some point. With desires of his own for her, reality catches up with all of the, them all in a tragic series of events with one common link. And the, the cover box is some, a man in shadow

[00:13:52] grabbing her from behind and she's like this. It should have been a lifetime movie. I'm sure. It feels lifetime-y. Damn. Anyway, before we get into cast and crew, let's hear a message from our podcast. Hi listeners. It's Mark from the Release Date Rewind podcast. Now on the Straw Hut Media Network. On each episode of my show, I invite a different friend or two to take a trip down memory lane with

[00:14:18] me and re-watch movies we love. And occasionally TV shows too. All genres, big budget, low budget, award winners, cult classics, everything. And we're not just talking about any random movie. We nerd out about movies that are celebrating milestone anniversaries of release. So think the big ones like 20th anniversary, 25th, 30th, 40th, 50th, and so on. Learn some trivia and get nostalgic with us while listening to Release Date Rewind wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:14:49] Okay. So our cast and crew, Heckerling first saw Alicia Silverstone in the Aerosmith music video for Cryin' and kept her in the back of her mind for the role of Cher. Man, music videos back then, it was like a time to live because I was obsessed with that music video. But when I, so there's Cryin' and what's the other one? Wasn't she in two Aerosmith videos? Yes. There's Crazy and Cryin'. So there's Cryin'. And then there's Crazy and Crazy was with Liv Tyler. Yes. Which always creeped me

[00:15:18] out because that's her daddy. Yeah. And why you have naked. And it's interesting that the bookends for us are really Empire Records starring Liv Tyler and Clueless starring Alicia Silverstone and the common thread are, it's the Aerosmith music video. Yes. Well, when the film was still in development at Fox, executives suggested Alicia Witt, Carrie Russell, Tiffany Thiessen, Gwyneth Paltrow, and Angelina Jolie for the part.

[00:15:48] I, every time I see Alicia Witt's name come up, it's, it's like she was supposed to be bigger than she ended up being. And it's like, stop trying to make Alicia Witt a thing. I don't hate her or anything, but I just never saw it. She never gave me the spark. Yeah. I always felt like she was there and she did an adequate job, but there was nothing. I'm going to like, it's not going to be anything. I'm going to like seek out her movies. Right. Carrie Russell, we already know how I feel. I know. I would have been fine with that.

[00:16:17] I think the smartest choice they made was to cast someone the actual age or like close to the age of Cher. Because then we get those really true, honest moments, like the Hadeans. And that's how she pronounced it because she had never like seen it written before. Like you get those things where it's like you, this character is supposed to be so polished and posh, but then you see glimmers of like, oh, she's just a 15 year old girl. Right. I'm glad it wasn't Gwyneth because she gives me nothing, but I did think she did a good

[00:16:47] job in the Emma movie. So it's kind of funny. She did end up playing the role in a different movie. Angelina Jolie. I can't see playing like a bubbly, naive character. Not even back then. Core Angelina for me is Gia and Hackers. Yeah. There's nothing light about her. No, not at all. And Tiffany Thiessen, I think she could have like played that. She had been playing that role essentially in the role of Kelly.

[00:17:16] And I feel like Alicia brought that like hint of innocence that like, I don't think just because Tiffany, we associate Tiffany Thiessen with Kelly Kapowski that we wouldn't have gotten. Right. I think that Amy Hackerling kind of hit it on the head. She said that the thing about Alicia was that she's like the stereotypical blonde epitome, I guess, like American beauty standard,

[00:17:44] but still the type of person people actually gravitate to and like, you know? And so I do think that is kind of a hard thing to pull. Could my girl Keri Russell do it? Yes, absolutely. Without, without a doubt. Yeah. Hackerling also met with Reese Witherspoon who already had a few film roles to her credit. And Sarah Michelle Gellar was offered the role of Amber, but turned it down to, to her commitments

[00:18:10] to all my children while Zooey Deschanel auditioned for the role of Amber as well. I could see Sarah Michelle Gellar. I think, I think there are no misses in this casting. No, absolutely not. I could see Sarah Michelle because we do get Catherine in Cruel Intention so she can have that like snarky edge. Yes. She, that, my girl Sarah could have done that in her sleep. She could have played

[00:18:36] any of the girl parts in her sleep. There's, there's nothing that girl can't do. Okay. If you start on, if you start on soaps, you're good to go. But I think it's best because I don't know after this, if she would have taken Buffy, it might've felt too similar. So everything worked out for the way it was supposed to, like you said, Reese Witherspoon, we already know she could have played Cher and Cher could have played Legally Blind. I feel like the two movies, it's just a continuation. Yeah. You know, the only-

[00:19:05] I mean, her daddy is a scary litigator. Right. I'm seriously- Apple tree. Right. So even though Silverstone only had the thriller, The Crush as like her only previous film at the time, the studio didn't pressure Heckerling to cast big stars. And I really think it's because the studio didn't expect much. Right. So ultimately,

[00:19:28] Elisa didn't even have to audition. She just got the role. And yeah, I love that for her. So Ben Affleck and Zach Braff auditioned for the role of Josh. I love that like Zach Braff and Donald Faison's meet were cute. Could have been on Clueless. Yes. That's a red string theory if I've ever heard one. And I think they're soulmates. Oh, 100%. Yeah. Ben Affleck, I don't know why they were trying to make that a thing either.

[00:19:56] His big old head. He grew into it later. He looks much better now, but them early days, I don't think so. Well, and he had already played- I mean, I guess he played Shannon in Mallrats, which I always felt like Shannon was like even out of college. Yeah. He looked too damn old to be in this movie. Yeah. Lauren Hill auditioned for the role of Dion, which eventually went to Stacey Dash, obviously. And as much as I love- First of all, my girl is coming back for the new Sister Act movie. Never thought that

[00:20:21] would happen. She must need to check real bad. Well, I mean, she does- Huh? Yeah, she does miss a lot of engagement. Right. I hope she shows up to set on time. I just don't see it. No. I don't see it. I- There's no reference point. I think Lauren Hill's a good actress, but I- I just don't see her playing Dion. Because the way that Stacey Dash played Dion was with like a coolness

[00:20:44] about her, but also fitting into that lifestyle. Yes. You know, being like a baddie. So a baddie before we were talking about baddies, I guess. Yeah. Seth Green auditioned for the role of Travis and Alana Ubok was considered for the role of Ty. No and yes for me. Agreed. I think Seth Green- I can see- I can see how Seth Green would audition for Travis. Like he was- An airborne. Yeah.

[00:21:13] So he already- Yeah. And he was kind of like an it boy during that time. So like, obviously he was probably going out for things. But I mean, Breckin Meyers. I just- I say Breckin has it over Seth a smidge because this cast was beautiful. Like everyone was very pretty. I don't think Seth is- I don't either. But yeah, I just can see it. But Alana Ubok? Imagine, what if we had Alana, Sarah Michelle Giller, and Reese Witherspoon,

[00:21:43] and then they all circle back in other movies together anyway, so- I hate this next fact. On principle. Terrence Howard and Dave Chappelle were considered for the role of Murray. I think just because I- just the things I've heard about Terrence Howard. He's a nightmare on Elm Street for sure. But I think at the time, he was- he's- he was handsome enough. Yeah. And Dave Chappelle-

[00:22:08] No. I don't know how that was even possible. He was not, again, not cute enough in the slightest. Funny enough, but not cute enough. We weren't going for quirky in any of these roles. We were going for- Like a leading role. Pretty people. Yeah. Like, yeah. But speaking of Murray, one of the funniest things that I saw was that Paul Rudd auditioned for the- for Murray, Christian, and Elton. And he assumed that the character of Murray was a white teenager

[00:22:37] trying to act like a rapper. I want to see that audition tape. Yes. Immediately. Where's the petition? I will sign first. Because that's literally just Seth Green and can't hardly wait. And I want to see it. Oh. We gotta- we gotta tag somebody. Release the tapes. Release the tapes. Jeremy Renner and Jamie Walters auditioned for the role of Christian. Jerry Orbach and Harvey Keitel were considered for the role of Cher's father.

[00:23:07] I could see both of them, but then it would just make me think of Dirty Dancing. And yeah. It wouldn't have mattered either way. I think they would both could have played that role. The character of Wendell Hall, played by Wallace Shawn, was inspired by a real-life debate teacher at Beverly Hills High School and a friend of Heckerling's. Prior to full-time acting, Shawn had been a teacher and drew on his experience for his portrayal of Mr. Hall. Yeah. Like, 100%. I was like, that man had been in the classroom before.

[00:23:36] Just a few things about the ages on set. So Brittany Murphy was 17 at the time, required a parent or guardian present during filming. I appreciate that. Because especially like after, like, we learned how toxic sets could be, that it was required on that set. I very much appreciate that. So Brittany Murphy was 17 while Stacey Dash was 29 when she portrayed the character,

[00:24:02] which was literally half her age. Which now I want to know how old Donald is, because it's similar to like the Shawn and Angela situation on Boy Meets World. And even when we found out about how old Gabrielle Union was during... Yeah. But as we've said before, as Black actors, the roles aren't always rolling in. So you've got to do what you can and thank God Black don't crack. So I think she was two years older than Paul Rudd at the time. So he was pretty old too.

[00:24:32] Yeah. And then Dan Hedaya considered this movie and his role one of his favorite filmmaking experiences. I love that. That's so sweet. I do too. One thing that I realized was that Scott Rudin is the producer on this movie, and I think he's the producer on First Wives Club. And he was, I think he was the reason that one got made. And he's also the reason why this one got made because Twink Kaplan, who's also an

[00:24:57] associate producer on the movie, and she is Amy Huckerling's best friend, as nepotism should work properly. And she plays Miss Geist. Right. Right. So she said film executives at Fox were wary of the story being too female oriented to appeal to a larger, large enough audience. She said it was obvious that they didn't get it. They thought the script needed more boys in it. They were afraid that if they focus on girls, we wouldn't get any guys to see it. So it went into turnaround. It was dead. And then six months

[00:25:24] later, the script found its way to producer Scott Rudin, and he gave it his stamp of approval. And because of his support, it led to increased interest in the script. And that's how it got picked up at Paramount. And it caused a bidding war between the studios and Paramount Pictures eventually won. Okay. So let's, let's get into it. So Clueless starts, we are introduced to Cher's world. We have Cher via voiceover showing her, her life.

[00:25:53] That intro is iconic. Like just even the Paramount stars coming in with that, that music, you could show me looking out a dirty old window, you could show me a half a second of that. And I'm like, Clueless, like, I know, I know. And so, and I love that in the intro, you're seeing them all at cool, like living their lavish lives. And I love that she's narrating and saying it, this is not a Neutrogena commercial or something. And I was like, this is some real shit. I love it already.

[00:26:23] And then like, because it's a voiceover, you feel like it should be because of the experience. And they're all like very affluent and like driving around in brand new cars and like everything's bright and shiny. And then you get this voiceover and you're like, oh, like a kid talking to me. Like, this is not like true Beverly Hills. Right. A child. And from like, the moment your eyes see this movie, there's not a lull in this movie. There's not a

[00:26:50] thing that you don't, your eye, it's like candy for your eyes. Because then right after we get, we see her getting ready and we see this closet with this computer system, you're like, what the fuck is that? Why is this not a thing yet? I don't know. Oh, it would very much help me. I'm not really good with matching and colors at times. So if the computer could do it, that would be great. And also I have so many clothes that because my weight fluctuates, it would be great for it to tell me like what still fits and what I could actually wear. Yeah. You can input your size. Yeah.

[00:27:20] And stuff. Yeah. I like that. Also, but the computer is like, hey, wear this thing that is obviously a set. But it does try to give her something that's not a set or no. Is it share that speak? Now I can't even remember. Yeah. Yeah. She's like mixing and matching. And then it's like, this doesn't match. And so it's like giving her advice. The way a bitch got plaid everything after this movie came out. Okay. And I was definitely wearing my knee highs and my platform shoes.

[00:27:48] Did you skin a poodle for your backpack? I didn't. I didn't. I did have like a little like leather backpack, but it wasn't. I don't, I don't, the textures of furry things are not like my favorite. Yeah. Understood. So we see it. Her dad bought her a Jeep and she doesn't, she only has her learner's permit, but she needs something to learn on. And like, I love how rich people are like a Jeep is a good thing to learn on.

[00:28:15] We see her house. So we see her mansion. They have a maid. We're kind of introduced to the backstory of her dad kind of goes through wives like candy, but he has a policy that he divorces wives, not stepchildren. So it seems like he tries to keep close relations. I want to know how many step siblings Cher actually has. Yeah. Same. And we do get it. We see a picture of her mom and find out that her mom passed away

[00:28:43] and we get the terminology Betty from that. And then she goes and picks up Dion. So then we're introduced to Dion and Dion is equally as fashionable as Cher, if not more so because she takes more creative liberties and risks in her wardrobe choices. And this is where we get some of that like shade. And then we're introduced to the school. They have their clicks and everything. And then it's

[00:29:13] report card day. So she's sitting in Mr. Hall's class and he's handing out the report cards and she, she gets a C. We, we also see a debate, don't we? Her and Amber debate. Do we meet Murray first? Do we meet Murray? Trying to remember. Because she, yes, they walk into school and they stop because then we see Murray with his baggy pants and then they get in a fight about the braid that she finds in the car. Oh yeah.

[00:29:41] Another terminology of jeepin. And Cher's like, I'm out of here. I'll see you later. And that's when we get her philosophy that she's, she's so over high school boys. It's super weird. Even when I think about it now, that kid like coming and putting his arm around her like, bitch, who are you? Yeah. Well, and like, I always forget how young these characters are. It's not until like a good way through the movie where she's like, Ty, how old are you? And she's

[00:30:09] like, I'll be 16 in May. And she's like, well, as someone older, I was like, these children are 15 talking about getting high and having sex and dating college, not even college. Like he's studying to be a lawyer, which in my mind seems like, so he already has at least his four year degree. Oh, you know, I was just thought he just got to school. You know, I never did the math and I never wanted to think about it. I don't know how old Josh is supposed to be. According to Google,

[00:30:39] he is a freshman in college. Okay. Yes. That's what, yeah. Okay. Okay. Sorry. I, I, I jumped to conclusion. I was like, wait a minute. I've been off a long time. Yeah. So then I think they go to class. She goes to class. And she, she makes a very poor argument in debate class. Is it poor? I look at where we're at right now and I don't think she was wrong. Essentially what Cher says

[00:31:07] is that there's enough room at the table. We have to make room at the table for everyone instead of excluding people. Just because people RSVP late doesn't mean that we should kick them to the curb. I thought that was a beautiful message. And she said on the Statue of Liberty, it does not say RSVP. Yeah. I agree. In Mr. Hall's eyes, it was a poor debate rebuttal. And then Amber is like, how do I even argue with that? She's talking about some

[00:31:34] party. I'm like, no, she's making an analogy. Yeah. She's making it tangible for people to understand. And she's going to end up with Elle Woods at Harvard. So yeah, ain't nothing that girl can't do. Yeah. So she does receive a C in, in her, in that class. And so she takes it home. And this is where we see one of, I guess, throughout filming, they changed her last name. So when she hands her

[00:31:59] dad, the report card, it's a different last name than Horowitz, which is what her last name ends up being in the movie. Well, they said it may be an in joke because Amy Heckerling's previously directed Fast Times at Ridgemont High featured a character named Stacey Hamilton. So they thought maybe they did that as a joke. I don't know. Oh, but her dad's like, what is this? And she's essentially like,

[00:32:24] oh, these aren't the finalized grades. Like this is my starting off point to start negotiations. And so, and her dad is extremely proud of that. And you see her multiple times in this movie, trying to get her dad to drink orange juice. I literally just hit me on this watch after millions of times of watching this movie that she literally goes the window outside her dad's office. She just goes and picks an orange right there and she cuts and starts squeezing it. I don't

[00:32:51] know why I've never seen that before, but she's trying to stay on top of her daddy's health. His cholesterol is off. That dude sounds like he won't have a heart attack any day the way he'd be yelling every 10 seconds. So one of my all time favorite lines in this movie is where they're sitting down at dinner and she walks in and she's like, oh daddy, this is my friend, friend Ty. And he's just like, you're in my chair. Yeah. It kills me every time I see it. I'm like, I love this so

[00:33:16] much. Why did you even let him, let her sit there? Like you set me up for the okie doke. And then like, if I were Ty, I'd be like, I gotta go. Like your dad hates me. I'm never coming back here. So Cher is able to sweet talk most of the teachers into changing her grade, but Mr. Hall is just like, he's not having no, he's the debate teacher. You can't debate the debate teacher.

[00:33:42] So Cher comes up with this plan. Like, oh, we just need to like essentially get him laid. I love that. Even though it doesn't, maybe Dion has his class at another time, but she is fully invested in helping Cher and her shenanigans regardless. She's like, okay. I think Dion loves love. And so like, because she gets really excited when they start like doing the little cutesy, like first time dating thing. What I love about this movie is that I truly feel

[00:34:11] like there are four acts. Like it feels like a play. I can tell when it's shifting from one act to the next. Yes. So like the first act is obviously we were introduced to Cher and we, she's trying to play matchmaker with the teachers. Then the second half is when we meet Ty and she's trying to get matchmake with Ty. And then I don't know if the third act is necessarily like almost like her downfall.

[00:34:36] Yeah. She starts struggling. Oh no, sorry. The third, the third act is Christian, the introduction of Christian and that situation. And then the fourth act is when she starts to focus on herself. She looks inwards. So you see her externally trying to push and manipulate and maneuver all these other people. And then there's an acceptance that happens at the fourth act where she is like looking inward and I need to work on me. I need to work on me, which helps her reflect better

[00:35:01] and really look at the people in her life as whole people instead of different people to maneuver and manipulate and, and metal. Yeah. So I, I just, I love that feeling. I love that she was so thorough with how she wrote this movie that you feel the different acts. Well, Danielle, it's based on Emma, which Jane Austen helped, but, but you know what I mean? Like nowadays it's fully fleshed out. There is

[00:35:31] never, there are no like loose ends or like even like Amber's very like third, fourth rate storyline has a conclusion. And even to the point where like Cher like embraces Travis at the end, like we get like these really like nicely tied up in a bow sparkly, right. Like endings for all of these characters. Right. Every single person gets a little bit of nurturing somewhat.

[00:35:58] And I think that it hits me because so many movies you could tell people went in to do the movie, had an intention and they couldn't follow all the way through, you know, how many times you start watching a movie and then they lose the plot towards the end. And it's just like, this sucked, you know, I love that about this movie. It is pure comfort and fun. And every neat little package. Every time I watch it, I feel like I'm getting something else out of it, which is amazing.

[00:36:28] So they decide to hook Mr. Hall up with Ms. Geist, the science teacher. And she's just, she just needs a little guidance. She needs a little, little wardrobe adjustment, learn how to do her hair and makeup. And so, and Sharon Dion, that's their specialty. So look a hot mess. Like why I've never seen someone tuck and untuck a shirt in that way. Like it's so sloppy. And also like it leans,

[00:36:54] like, it's like you have to lean your head to see the ensemble. Just, she got static. It's a lot. It is a lot. And they do kind of orchestrate different situations to kind of push the two teachers together. Like Cher accidentally brings her dad's coffee. And so she encourages Mr. Hall to

[00:37:18] go share it with Ms. Geist. As a teacher, I am not taking anything that is not like pre-packaged, sealed from a student. As you shouldn't. Bitch could be poisoning you for all you know. Especially after like, this is the same girl who just tried to convince you to change her grade and you wouldn't. I'm keeping my eye on you, girl. And she just, she's like, oh, well, Ms. Geist was right about like in the front of the whole class.

[00:37:44] One of my favorite things is just watching those class scenes. And so you're seeing all the different people in the classroom, very multicultural. You see people speaking different language. There's a lot of stuff going on. I love that. Was it Elton? It's like, I love my Cranberry CD. I was like, oh, this is so 90s. Like, you know. I fucking hate Elton. To the point where like, I don't like Jeremy Sisto as an actor because I equate him with Elton and I can't get it out of my brain.

[00:38:12] I think I felt the same way about him for a lot, a long time. But there was a show on ABC called Suburgatory that I really liked that he played the dad in that. And that was like the, literally that's the only thing I can recall that I've seen him in that I like him in. Apologies, Jeremy. I'm sure you're very lovely. Love to have you on the show. Yeah. But I just, your character was such a shithead and I can't get it out of my brain. Which means he did an amazing job. Yes, absolutely. It's like the Kevin Bacon effect. Like after Sleepers,

[00:38:41] I have a really hard time enjoying Kevin Bacon. Yeah. He has redeemed himself on TikTok though. Short form, Kevin Bacon's fine. Okay. So their plan works. Mr. Hall is in his like love haze. And so he changes Cher's grade and the world is right once again. And they clap for her. They're so excited that she's helped everybody. So mission accomplished.

[00:39:05] Yeah. And then we meet a new student, Ty, played by Brittany Murphy. And she is just, she's from like real world America. Right. I was wondering, like, what did Ty's parents do? Yeah. Where did she come? Where did she say, why do I feel like New Jersey, but that's not it? I don't know where she came from. Yeah. She had an accent, but I feel like I couldn't ever place the accent. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:32] But of course Cher's like, doesn't know anything about this girl, but has decided to take her on as a project. Offensive, I'm sure. Yeah. And, but she's nice. Like, I love Dion's response though, where she's like, I am not so not interested in any of this. But Cher kind of like pushes her into it. She's like, okay, fine. If you want to do it, fine. But she's nice. I love the scene where they're giving her the makeup to the, I want to be a supermodel. Yeah.

[00:39:59] And Ty like flips her hair back all wet and Dion's look. Yeah. Like, I've seen that look before. I'm on Daniel K. Clark. I was like, why are you doing that? Also, you're making a mess. You're going to get me wet. I would have slept if she was under her. Like, why are you getting my clothes wet? I'm trying to be very good to you right now. Also, there is a fireplace in that bathroom. Stay less.

[00:40:28] Stay fucking less. I kept, when they were burning the stuff that Ty had, I was like, why is the fireplace on? It's so, I'm assuming it's got to be hot outside. No, they turn it on. I know, but it's just like. Well, and it's gas. You don't burn anything in a gas burning. Like they usually have fake logs. And she's like literally throwing things in there. I'm like, that's not. That's not how you do that.

[00:40:54] Think about how many people after this movie was trying to burn up gas things on their gas fireplace and burning their fucking houses down. So now we're at Ty has had a makeover. What do you think about Ty's makeover? I feel like, I was like, oh, okay, she's cute. It felt, it did feel very much like a makeover that two high school girls could accomplish. But it's almost like they made her a little bit up to standard, but she was nowhere on the same level as Sharon Dionne.

[00:41:23] Is Sharon ever, ever going to wear a shirt she cropped herself with a pair of scissors? No. No. Like, absolutely not. But I do think it's cool that, so remember I was talking about the wardrobe, how it wasn't as expensive as we would think. So the costume designer in this movie, her name is Mona May, and she wanted the girls to look like mall rats, not models.

[00:41:49] So the 63 outfit changes that they had in this movie only cost $200,000. Wow. And the biggest costume expense was the plaid John Paul Gaultier outfit that Alicia Silverstone wears in the opening scenes, which is an outfit that she got to keep along with all the other outfits from the film. Do you know this girl donated her costumes from this movie to charity? She gave it away to charity.

[00:42:18] Well, if it's not, like Alicia Silverstone, as we've come to know, is very, like, bohemian. So she's probably not going to wear any of this ever. Like, I could see, like, framing, like, the plaid outfit and just have it hanging in your house somewhere. But what are you going to do with, like, a Calvin Klein, skin-tight white dress? I feel like actors, they don't have a 401k. You don't know how long your career is going to let.

[00:42:43] I'm all about giving to charity, but because their business is so volatile, and this is what Sharon Stone had said about her outfits from Casino. She kept them as inheritance for her children to protect them and help them in case anything happened. I wonder if she's, maybe she doesn't regret it, but I'm curious as to when she gave them away. She might just not have known, but ask Reese Witherspoon. She got a whole fucking closet of all her outfits from the gay blonde. She's not wearing it, but she ain't giving it away. Yeah. I just, that was wild to me. I'm sorry, Alicia.

[00:43:13] I just don't agree. I personally would never. I fucking never. That is history. To quote your boo, it belongs in a museum. Yes. Well, the, the reason why Mona May chose the, the iconic plaid set worn by Cher at the beginning was because it was a nod to a Catholic school girl uniform, but taken to another level and turned designer. Valid.

[00:43:38] But now we have Ty's makeover and she is like fully focused that Ty, we need to find Ty a bow. That's the whole thing. And I love how there are sometimes two conversations happening between the girls because like you said, Ty is from the real world and these girls are living like in a fantasy. So they're saying, they're saying Coke, like Coca-Cola. Yeah. She's talking about the white stuff. Oh shit. You guys got Coke here.

[00:44:05] One of the things that we do see is that Ty before her makeover and any, anything she meets, did we say this? She meets Travis. And we haven't talked about it yet. Yeah. I love how the thing that bonds them essentially is that the, what do you call the, the, the devil, the cartoon thing? Marvin the Martian. Is that what it is? I was thinking about the other one. What's the other one? That's Manian Devil. Yeah. Sorry. It's, it's Marvin the Martian. And like, so they start talking about that. That was super cute.

[00:44:32] And so we see that Ty has like an affinity for Travis. And when she tells the girls, they like, they shut that down real quick. No. We do. Stoners are on the grassy knoll over there. And this is one of the first movies. I think we see that the categories of the different cliques. Yeah. And from this point on, we see it in almost any, every teen movie. We see it in Mean Girls. We, you know, everybody is in their different sectors. So that. I think. Something excited about you. Yes. Yeah.

[00:45:01] We also see Cher in Dionne working with Ty, like on how to speak more Californian, more LA. Teaching her like the, the slang. At one point Cher is like, we have to read one non-school book a week. Right. I hate that Cher is a diet book. Yeah. There's a lot of fat phobia in this movie. It can't be, it can't be helped because it's the 90s.

[00:45:24] So one thing I do realize is that Cher kind of playing house with Taj or like, like she's a baby doll. I think stems from, it's like, she's trying to mother Ty because of the lack of, you know, her mom passing away. So. And her dad even points out at the ending, like she is a caretaker. Like she, she makes sure he eats right. And like, she's constantly taking care of everyone, not just in her family, but like in her circle of friends. She's very nurturing in that way.

[00:45:54] I would love to know what Cher sign is. If it's giving cancer, but it could be something else. So I'm going to look it up. Yeah. I hate that chat GPT phrased it this way, but it says Cher takes Ty to a party to socialize her. Like she's a goddamn dog. Oh, that is very interesting words. Cher is a Taurus. Her birthday is supposed to be April 22nd, apparently. Oh yes. Because she said my birthday is in April and as someone who's older, let me give you some advice. That trap. Right.

[00:46:24] Right. Because they said her birthday is in April, making her a Taurus with one month older than Ty. Since her birthday is April 22nd, 1979, it makes her a Taurus. So. Man 79. She's one year younger than Kent. We're at this Christmas party. This is the, I think it's the first time we see Nicole Builder back. Is it, or is she in some background shots in the classroom?

[00:46:51] I feel like we see her when Cher's at school at some point first. Cause I remember I clocked that and I love, you know, summer. First, actually we see summer when the first credits roll. We see her at the pool at Cher's pool. So we do see her pretty early on and she has a few lines throughout the movie. And if you, okay. Go ahead. If you haven't listened to our interview with Nicole Builder back, you should definitely go check it out. We'll put it in the show notes of this movie.

[00:47:20] It's a, it's a fun listen. And we kind of, you know, we get her feedback on how she got this role. The impact that having this Asian American actress in such an iconic movie, what it did to, you know, so many other actors coming up. And just other people just being able to see themselves, even though she had such a small part, it was a huge deal. And I do ask her about the lit up decoration that's still plugged in. The snowman. That's our Jackie. Always looking at the details.

[00:47:50] The continuity was not continuing. But Nicole is so amazing and so lovely. And she still engages with us. And we just appreciate her so much. And everything she's brought to the table in terms of the roles and the path she's blazed for Asian American representation in film. 100%. So at the party, we see there is drug use. So Cher and Ty get high. They play a game called Second Blow.

[00:48:18] Elton, one of the many red flags, purposefully does not suck so that he can kiss Cher without consent. Not great. I hate it. It's not great. Like you said, it's not good at all. But them playing this game, Second Blow, they were unable to actually sustain the breath to make an actual credit card pass from mouth to mouth. So they had to use a prop card made out of cardboard. And that still didn't work. Well, yeah.

[00:48:46] I feel like cardboard would be harder than... I feel cardboard's lighter. It's lighter than the credit, depending on the credit card. Maybe I'm thinking of my big one now. So they ended up drilling holes to make it easier. And this also failed. So the whole cast lips were heavily coated in chapsticks to force the card to stick. So it was never a game that I, you know, after seeing it saying, oh, I want to do this. I don't even think we had parties like that.

[00:49:15] Like we had guy friends, but we definitely were not trying to make out with most of them. No, stay far away from me. I had friend zone, arm blank. No, thank you. We see like the whole school there and it's in the Valley. So it's far away. So I don't know how the whole school got invited to this house party to begin with. And then Travis was handing out pliers. Yeah. And originally the girls were like, we're not going to that.

[00:49:42] And then I guess by the time things looped around and other people were like going, they said, okay, well, kids were gone. I'm sure it was Murray. And what is Murray's friend's name? Cause he ends up being like, I love that he's in the background in, in this movie. You don't really, he really says like two or three lines, but then they bring him on the actual clueless TV show when they had it. And so a couple of like really integral plot points happen in this scene and the next scene.

[00:50:09] The first one being that like Cher's really pushing hard for the Ty Elton connection and Ty is dancing, Ty and Cher are dancing. And some girl is flipping her feet with joy, flips her clog off. It hits Ty in the head. And now like she's knocked out and they're worried she has a concussion. And Travis is trying to be helpful. He's bringing ice. He's doing all the things. And Cher's pretty much like, no, Travis. Well, he like spilled something on her shoes.

[00:50:38] So that pissed her off. She's like, it's satin. So I think that started things off on the wrong foot. Yeah. So, and it was to the, oh, and Roland with the homies is playing in the background. RIP. Love you, Coolio. And so Elton kind of takes care of Ty, gets her a towel with ice and stuff and like is checking to make sure she's okay. And then shortly thereafter, is this also when Marie shaves her?

[00:51:06] So Marie's in the bathroom with his bestie. Sean is his name. Okay. And Sean is shaving his head. And Dion has a full on like fit. She is pissed. And I love the scene where she, she's like, that's it. And so Marie's repeating her. He's like, that's it. I'm going to call your mother. And then they start fighting. Panic. I love how she's like right before school picture day. I'm the one who has to look at you. Right.

[00:51:35] She's like, what am I going to tell my grandchildren? I love that she sees them together in the long haul. So they start fighting and their shenanigans. Again, I love that, that Dion has her own life. Like her and Cher are cool, but she's got a relationship. She, you know, she's doing her own thing. So it's not like her storyline revolves around what is going on with Cher. And Cher's got a little pet. And I think that's what's funny about Dion is that she knows that Cher has a little pet. And it's, it seems like it's not the first time. And she's just like, girl, do you, do you?

[00:52:05] I don't know what to say. So yeah, they're fighting. They, they, like you said, they got Ty all together. And they decide it's, it's time to, to come home. I think Cher's dad ends up calling her and yelling at her. Like, do you know what time it is? And he's like, you need to get home in 20 minutes. Everyone in LA should take 20 minutes. And so that's when her, Ty, Summer and Elton, they're leaving.

[00:52:29] And then it's just like this, this back and forth happening where she's trying to have Elton be with Ty. What I don't understand is if, instead of like going around about why Cher doesn't just ask him from the get-go if he's interested. Yeah. Because it's not going to hurt her any if she asks him because it is what it is. She kind of set up Ty for the okie doke with this stuff because she really starts to like him.

[00:52:54] I think she truly believes if she just believes and tries hard enough. It's going to happen. It'll happen. Yeah. She just lives in a delusion of grandeur. And we have some misconceptions or there's misunderstandings that happen because when she does that, like, there's like a photography session she does randomly. And Elton's like, oh, I'd like that picture. And he hangs up the picture of Ty in his locker, which we find out later it's because she took the picture, which is super weird to me, don't you think?

[00:53:23] But it's literally because I didn't see any form of Emma until the most recent one came out with, I think. Anya Tyler. Tyler Joy. Tyler Joy. Yeah. And it's like, literally, like, it's word for word. Like, there is a painting that happens. And then, like, the guy's like, oh, I want that painting. And it's like, oh, because you painted it. I was like, like, oh, like, this was like legit legit from Emma.

[00:53:51] Like, down to like the conversation from Emma. Got it. I had a lot of aha moments during that movie. So we, yeah, so there's like this back and forth, like, who's taking who home? Finally, Elton wins, takes Cher home, and, yeah, continues his sexual assault of Cher. He pulls over to try to, like, make, he, like, can't handle it because she keeps trying to talk about Ty. He's like, oh, what, Ty?

[00:54:19] And he just goes to, like, mouth her down. Yeah. And for a second, it feels like, okay, she's not interested. He's like, okay, let's just go. But then he's like, well, I don't understand, blah, blah, blah. Like, how could you not? And then when she's like, I've been trying to hook you up with Ty. And he's like, Ty is not on my level. Like, my dad is. And she's like, I love how she's like, you are so freaking, what is the word that she uses? Oh, God, it's not bougie. Oh, you are such a snob. Yeah.

[00:54:50] I was like, facts. Yeah. And she gets out of the car and he leaves her. I'm like, what are you doing? Just try to get home. He's trash. But sometimes you've got to survive. Yeah. So she's in, like, this deserted parking lot in who knows where LA. Right. Wearing designer clothes. And she is subsequently robbed at gunpoint as she's trying to call for a ride. That part of the storyline is never talked about again. Like, yeah. I'm sure that was traumatic.

[00:55:17] And also, we never see her, like, cutting her cards off or anything. And not cussing Elton the fuck out afterwards. This is an aliyah. An aliyah. And so she's called Josh. Yeah. But Josh picks her up. He's actually, like, hanging out with his girlfriend, woman friend. And so they're in the car driving. And the girlfriend is trying to, like, quote Hamlet. And Cher's like, actually, that's not who said that line. It was that felonious guy.

[00:55:45] And so, like, Josh is kind of realizing, like, oh, there's more to share than, like, serving. But I think Josh always knew that. Like, that's, I think he knows that about her. But I think there's something about her that tickles him. And so you see that moment happen. And the girl sees that moment, too. And she's pretty pissed because it seems like he's laughing at her. But it's more about, like, that she continues to just surprise you. Like, come out with, like, these, like, glimpses of, like, oh, she's got stuff going on upstairs. She's not as vapid as, like, she presents.

[00:56:15] She's got glimmers of genius. Yes. So then next up, we are introduced to another new kid in class, Christian. Who we hear about earlier when, which is super weird that Mr. Hall asked about Christian. Because I'm like, is it the first day of school? Like, why are you, shouldn't you know by now that this kid's not in your class? Yeah. That always, like, I never understood that. Well, I just, him complimenting her legs always felt weird to me.

[00:56:44] Like, I couldn't understand more of, like, an outfit or something like that and not a body part. I thought it was her shoes when he said it hit her stems. Oh, maybe. I always thought it was her legs. Like, the stems are the legs of a human. Maybe. Maybe. I just always thought he was in my, in her shoes. Let me ask Google. We're Googling a lot. Yeah. It says in a slang context, nice stems refers to a person's legs, especially those of an attractive woman. Well, I could imagine.

[00:57:14] You know, a lot of my gay guy friends like certain body parts. Doesn't mean that they want to sleep with me. If that makes sense, I guess. I don't know. Yeah. Now, and Cher is attracted to Christian because she feels like he's more worldly. He's put together. He's manscaped. Like. He was definitely giving the vibes of, like, so. Of, of, like, the 90210 boys were very much kind of, like, in the 50s era with their clothing during the 90s. And so Christian kind of has that feel to him a little bit.

[00:57:45] Yeah. Yeah. And he's different. Like, after you've been in school with these same guys over and over again, you definitely. New blood. Want something new. Yeah. But it's funny to watch the scenes with Christian now as an adult and see how many things, like, went over my head when I was younger. That it was pretty blatantly obvious that he was gay. And that was also such a huge thing to do to put in a big teen movie like this, you know. Yeah.

[00:58:12] To have a gay character and to not, like, degrade him or anything like that, you know. Yeah. He is who he is. And it's just that Cher kind of had blinders on and was just looking for a romantic counterpart. So she's hanging out with Christian. We get the scene where they go out to the club. So she gets the little Calvin Klein. She is so. Her. Everybody's. Everybody at that club or the party or whatever is dressed vastly different. Like, there's just all over the place happenings.

[00:58:42] I will say I, first off, my love of the Mighty Mighty Boss Tones runs deep. And so I have been to Mighty Mighty Boss Tone shows. No one is dressing in a Calvin Klein skin tight dress and doing a little shimmy wiggle dance. No one. And then, like, Cher goes and she's hanging out. Like, Ty meets up with them. But then Ty's kind of left to her own devices because Cher is dancing with. Cher thinks she's dancing with Christian.

[00:59:10] Christian is dancing with the other guys at the club. The scene in which how he's dancing and when he does that turn and turn and goes, oh, and he makes those noises. That vocal stim for me. There are a lot of, like, vocal stimming things that happen in this movie that that's how I hear, you know. Yeah. But yes. And then we also see now Elton is seemingly on a date with Amber at the club.

[00:59:39] Let's have a conversation about Amber. Yeah, we haven't touched on Amber yet. I know that I made, like, a video a while ago of, like, the top 90s mean girls. And Amber is always considered, like, a mean girl when you're talking about that. I feel like Amber is considered more of, like, a mean girl for maybe some of the things she does on the TV show because we get her more fleshed out there. And then she ends up being more of, like, because there's no tie on that TV show. So she ends up being in their little clique.

[01:00:07] But I really don't know what the history is that she must have with Cher for her to hate her as much as she does. Because Cher, baby, that girl ain't got nothing on you from a face card situation. So what is the beef? Like, what's the situation? Maybe Cher just matches energy. Maybe, but I just never see Amber being explicitly, like, mean. Do you?

[01:00:36] She has little, she says little zingers. Yeah. Yeah. But not, she ain't no Taylor Vaughn. She ain't no Taylor Vaughn. Yeah. You know? Yeah, I can see it. Maybe it's just, like, one of those things where, like, you hate us because, like, Cher is... But, like, in the reverse. Like, Cher is just tired of Amber always being there and trying to, like, hey, guys, hey, guys.

[01:01:02] Like, almost like an annoying neighbor, little brother. Like, you know? Well, yeah. I think Amber bites her looks and she doesn't like that. I could understand that. But, like, collectively. It's not even how Cher necessarily feels about her, but the collective culture. There are think pieces, not think pieces, but there are lists that we have all deemed Amber as the me girl in this movie. And I never, like, when I really think about it, I'm like, she's annoying. Yeah. You know?

[01:01:31] But I don't recall her ever doing anything in this movie. We don't have... The plot of this movie is never dependent on a friction between a rival like a lot of other teen movies are. Yes. So, again, I'm going to just throw this out into the ether. You guys tell me if I just miss something. I don't know if she is the mean girl. And we're just misunderstood. Yeah. I mean, you know I'm always going to fight for... I'm a villain apologist, but I can't apologize for some non-villainary. Yeah. Villainary.

[01:02:02] I don't see it. So... Well... This is where we get the classic line, she's a full-on Monet from far away. She's okay, but up close, she's a full-on mess. Full-on mess. Yeah. So Ty is feeling really down now because now, like, Elton has chosen Amber over me, like, WTF. Yeah. And then we get, like, this weird montage where, like, Ty is, like, changing up her outfit by, like, taking her, like, little overshirt.

[01:02:28] She has it in her hair, around her waist, like, tied up. Like, she's just... A mess. Yeah. She doesn't know what she's doing, but it's super sweet because Josh sees that she's struggling or she's kind of on her own. Well, and Josh... Josh peeps Cher in that dress, and he's, like, not on my watch. Yeah. He said...

[01:02:51] And it's funny because the dad kind of smirks a few times in their interactions where it's, like, he knows that Josh has a thing for Cher and he's, like, okay with it, which, again, weird to me. Yep. So, yes, Josh does go with... That's why he ends up going to the party, even though the party is at his school. Yeah. But he's trying to get in hours with, like, because he wants to be a lawyer, so, you know, Josh being Josh. The funny thing about that dress that she's wearing, it's not actually Calvin Klein. Interesting.

[01:03:19] The underwear Calvin Klein dress was worn by Cher in that scene, but it was designed by Sue Hu, I hope I said that right, at the time, who was an emerging designer. But because Calvin Klein was a bigger name, that's why I got credited for the brand recognition during the time. Well, that makes me sad that, like, she didn't get recognition, and now they equate it with Calvin Klein when it was her design. Yeah. So, the next day, Christian's coming over to watch a movie, and so Cher's, like, this is it.

[01:03:46] I'm giving my virginity to him. He's so sophisticated. He knows about art and fashion and, like, vintage. This is wild, because when we think about the trajectory of this, Cher has spent many a week sending herself flowers, trying to get this man's attention for him to finally say, hey, like, you seem like you know what's going on on the weekend. Can we hang? They go to this one party. And that's it. That's it. She ready to give up the cookies, literally and figuratively.

[01:04:16] Yep. Christian. So, yeah, I didn't clock that until now, but he pulls up in a convertible car, and it's called a... A 1954 Nash Metropolitan. It's super cute. Very vintage. Love it. But he comes over, and before he comes over, she has to call reinforcements. She needs her friends to come help her get ready for this. So, well, actually, it's just Dion. Dion comes. Yeah. Helps her with mood lighting.

[01:04:45] I love how she's getting all red in the face. And she takes... We learn that Cher takes Polaroids and not... Depending on a mirror for her options. She goes with a red dress. Even though I love that blue dress that she had. And, yeah, so she tries... Her idea of baking is taking pre-made chocolate chip cookie dough, the log itself, and throwing it on a baking sheet. Yeah. I honestly would love to see what happens when you do that. Make a TikTok about it.

[01:05:15] Cher's famous cookie log. I want to see how it comes out. So she's making that. She forgets about it. It's burning. And she takes him on a tour. Apparently, she has, like, really fancy sculptures around her house and stuff like that. Daddy says it's a good investment. And then they decide to go watch a movie in her room and then they're on her bed. It's a Tony Curtis movie marathon. Girl, baby.

[01:05:44] You're watching Spartacus with a man that's more groomed than you are. And some, like... I think they also were watching some, like... Yeah. Yes. So the signs were there. And she's still confused because he's like, I'm going to go, like, after he kind of realizes what's happening. So the next day, she's in the car with Dion and Murray. It's the scene behind you. And she's talking it through. And Murray's like, he's gay. And she's like, no. And he's like, yeah.

[01:06:13] And you can see those wheels start cranking in her head. All the pieces start coming together. And she's like, fuck. Totally bugging. Yeah. And I love that Dion was leading her straight. Both of them didn't know. All they had to do was talk to Murray first. But this whole scene... I felt it because I... You know, it took me so long to drive. So I had real fear. Like, the two of them driving. And when I say the two of them, I mean Cher and Dion.

[01:06:40] I love how they're just having a conversation. And Dion gets distracted. And somehow they end up on the freeway. And the way Murray acts in this scene is my father. Greg. Greg teaching Danielle how to drive. Not even teaching me. Like, even after I learned how to drive, just the pure panic that he would have of me on the highway. He said that driving with me felt like the Flintstones. You know how they would use their foot as the brake pedals? Yes.

[01:07:08] He said he would be in the passenger seat, literally punching down air as if he could control the brakes. But yes, the way Murray acts and then the way that they're screaming. At one point, Dion is like literally taking her hands off the wheels. Like, it's pure mayhem. And I love the knitted little hat that she's wearing in this scene. Yeah. Everything perfect. Everything about this is perfect. But, you know, there's nothing like a freeway crisis to turn you on and make you horny. Yes.

[01:07:36] Poor Cher being literally third wheeling. She realizes that Christian is not for her. Yes. And then we get the whole, like, Ty becomes popular. I just, I don't like this because. She was kind of a bitch. Yeah. But I also feel like Ty is a bitch too. Yes. So we get the whole arc of, like, Ty is at the mall and she's flirting with boys and they, like, legit dangle her over the balcony.

[01:08:05] And Christian comes and rescues her. But then she, like, is playing up this, like, big dramatic thing at school. Well, at school she's telling a story. But I think from the perspective, because we're getting it from Cher's perspective. And I think Cher is just not used to not being essentially the center of attention. When we go back to her being, getting the makeover and stuff. Again, they make her up, but never, like, to their standards. At the level. Yeah. Right?

[01:08:32] And she doesn't have to compete with Dion. Because there's that undercurrent of, like, Dion is her own person. Dion has, like, another clique. But Dion is a Black girl. So in Cher's mind, regardless if she wants to believe it or not, she really doesn't even look at it as competition there. But Ty, on the other hand, is now invading her ecosystem of what she feels like. So she's fundamentally upset about that. Yeah.

[01:09:01] And so she's calling Ty overdramatic and all this other shit. And maybe she is just a tad. But now everyone's really interested in what she has to say when usually it's, you know, the other way around with Cher. So I always thought that was interesting. Yes, definitely. And then, like, around this time, Cher also has to go and take her driving test. Okay. You know you have those, like, aha moments where you're like, I've been hearing this wrong the entire time. I had that with Clueless.

[01:09:30] Like, it had to have been, like, a good 15 years after it came out. That I realized, probably when I started watching things with captions because it makes me hear better, that she, I always thought she said, where is my colorless shirt? I always thought she said, with red seagulls. Oh, I knew. It's Fred Seagull. Yeah. I had never heard Fred Seagull. So I always heard, with red seagulls.

[01:09:55] And I'm like, the shirt that she wears when she goes and takes her driving test is not, it doesn't have red seagulls on it. So I guess she couldn't find it, like, for 15 years. Wow, I didn't know that. I didn't know. Okay. Well, hey. We all have our things. I knew Fred Seagull was because of this movie. I always heard it as red seagulls. Little Jackie back there. So she fails her driving test miserably.

[01:10:23] And then Ty comes over and wants to burn all the Elton stuff. And Josh has been kind to Ty and Ty has misinterpreted that as flirting. And so she's developed a crush on Josh. And so during this scene, she's like, I need you to help me get Josh. And she was like, come again? That hits her like a ton of bricks. Because she really doesn't believe that she likes Josh. And now she realizes that she does. Yeah.

[01:10:51] And also, but this is how you know that Cher is more of a girl's girl and not. I don't think she's completely male-centered because in every instance, even when she liked Christian, yes, she was dancing with him. But she was always checking on Ty and whatever. She still checks on her girlfriend relationships. And when she found this out, she automatically thought that Josh would have liked somebody like Ty better.

[01:11:15] And she also felt like bad for even thinking about liking Josh because she knew Ty liked him. So I do appreciate that about her, even though she's having a dilemma. And she kind of, she tried to let Ty down easily and just be like, eh, wouldn't you rather someone else type thing? But like Ty immediately gets pissed. And then this is the classic, you're just a virgin who can't drive. And so now Cher's world has been completely shattered. Yeah.

[01:11:45] This illusion that she, in persona that she presents is now like everyone's seeing through it. And she's having a crisis of faith because do I really like my stepbrother? Yeah. It decides like I have to work on myself instead of trying to change everyone else around me. And so she starts with the Pismo Beach disaster relief. And so she goes through her house. She donates her skis. She, we see Travis come in and he's given up weed.

[01:12:15] He's in rehab. Cause they don't say rehab, which I like. They just say the 12 steps. Like he's, yeah. So we can assume that's what it is. And he apologizes for ruining Cher's shoes. She's like, oh, that was the last thing. She don't even care. She onto the next one. Yeah. There is a scene where, where Cher is having her meltdown about everything in general before she goes and get her driver's license, where she's trying to talk to Lucy, her housekeeper.

[01:12:39] And she very much doesn't get the difference between the fact that Lucy is from El Salvador versus Mexican. And had she just said, Lucy, you both speak Spanish. I don't think that would have been a problem. But because she says you both speak Mexican, that's where I'm like, oh, damn. Yeah. And I love how Josh is like laughing at her. Like, bitch, those are two different countries. Like, what are you talking about? Yeah. And she, she's like, everyone's against it. Like very, you want to talk about time being dramatic. So dramatic. Yeah. So now I just remember that part.

[01:13:09] So I just wanted to, cause she talked about like how she's done good and she's given Lucy some of her clothes and all this other crap. So. Yeah. So, so in her realm, she has made strides. Yeah. Yeah. And so they, she, Travis invites her to a skating match that he's going to skating competition, a brink competition. The pups and suds. And so. Go ahead. What I love about this scene. Cause Ty's there is that Dion is not there. Yeah.

[01:13:37] No, I fully made up her space. He's like, I'm not going to that now. Have fun. I'll talk to you when you're done. And Cher's just now like supporting people in their spaces instead of trying to manipulate them to fit in her space. And so she's there, she's watching the competition. Ty shows up. They apologize. You can see Ty is like real, real into the fact that Travis can do flippies on a skateboard. And so then she's also started helping her dad a little bit with his dispositions.

[01:14:05] And he gives her like, just find all the calls on this date. And so she's sitting around with another lawyer and Josh and they're like going through paperwork. And the lawyer like flips out because she, she went through his stack of papers and now he has to reorganize everything. And he kind of calls Josh out for like flirting with her. And like, that's why she's hanging around so much. And he peaces out. And like, she is generally concerned, like, did I fuck up this case for, for dad?

[01:14:30] And he's like, no, like the guy's being dramatic, but like they have this moment where they kind of Cher's already realized she's into Josh. Right. But Josh kind of comes around to the fact that he is into Cher as well. And they have the little kiss on the stairs. I think the realist, the realist quote from this movie that always spoke to my heart was when Cher says that she like loves going out and stuff. But sometimes her, like her favorite thing to do is just veg out on the couch. And I was like, realness, sister.

[01:15:00] But I always wondered, what is she doing with her hair in that scene? I, you know, you want to know what I, what I think? Tommy. I never thought about it because I was like, I just assumed that's with white girl grooming. I don't, it, I don't know. I don't know any friends with that hair texture that like puts clips in random places and takes like a little like claw clip, but only clips up half their hair. I don't know what was happening in that. I thought maybe it was a detangling situation.

[01:15:30] I don't know. And I didn't think about it too much. It bothers, that scene bothers me every single time. Like have her just do like a cute little braid, put it in a, like much like mine this evening, like little side braid or something, but like three clips on one side and then a claw clip on the other. And everything's just hanging down in a mess. What you doing? And Alicia Silverstone has some of the best hair in Hollywood. Yeah. Like it is so gorgeous and flowy and bouncy.

[01:15:59] Like Carrie Russell is another person. Like, I feel like they're known for their hair because of their hair, you know? So we're wrapping up the movie. So Mr. Hall and Ms. Geist get married. Somehow Ms. Geist has chosen to have students as bridesmaids. Here's my thing. It wasn't till this year, this one came out in 95, 2025 that I realized that this fucking wedding is at Cher's house. Yeah. All these years, I didn't click.

[01:16:30] But I think she has both Dion and what's her face because they hooked, they hooked them up. So. It's true, but it's also kind of weird. Like you don't have any grown friends, Ms. Geist? She has. I don't know. Look, if you're giving me a free wedding venue, girl, you could be a bridesmaid too. And then they're all sitting around at the reception and it's time to catch the bouquet. And Josh is like, hey, we got money writing on this. And Cher's like, bet.

[01:16:58] And like fights Amber tooth and nail for that fucking bouquet. Why? Why? I don't know why Amber's there. That I don't get. I get why Dion's there. I get why Cher's there. I don't know why Ty is there. Yeah. But okay. Again, but they paid for the wedding. So Cher's daddy paid for that wedding. Yeah. Well, we did it. That's clueless. Yeah. I don't know what we have to aspire to now.

[01:17:27] This was it. We'll find something. Well, we still have your birthday movie in June. I mean, yes. But that's not something we're both excited for. And even though I relented on it, I do love the Mighty Ducks and we're doing that in January. Well, why does it make it? Why do you always make it seem like you don't love the Mighty Ducks? Why not? I'm not saying that. I'm just saying it is way outside our timeframe. We only have one in our timeframe. It just wouldn't make sense. We got to do all three.

[01:17:57] You're not wrong. But you know, I got to play by the rules. Yes, but we make the rules so we can make exceptions. But I feel like our exceptions will snowball if we don't stay within the limit. We made it a rule where it's only one a year. And last year, I don't think we did one outside of our time period. Oh, look. What other fun facts do we have? Yeah. So scenes were included in the trailer, kind of similar to like Bring It On, that were not in the film.

[01:18:26] Among them is one in which Cher and Dionne are in the girls' bathroom primping when Amber walks in on them, noting her appearance. Cher quips, did I miss something? Is big hair back? So maybe these scenes that we saw as audiences, like, is what place in our head that Amber is mean? Yeah. Because why so much vitriol? Well, okay. So this movie, we know it's iconic. It spawned so many different things. So in 96, we got the TV show, a spinoff.

[01:18:55] Several cast members from the film went on to star. Silverstone and Rudd did not star. But Paul Rudd did make a cameo, I believe, on the TV show. Silverstone never came back. Rachel Blanchard came. Let me tell you, I was very mad. Like, she was never my Cher. I, after a while, I was like, okay, it is what it is. But. I never watched the TV show. I'm like, you can't. Why mess with perfection? I loved, I loved it so much.

[01:19:25] I'm actually surprised I don't have the Clueless dolls, Barbie dolls. But I was, anything Clueless, I was obsessed. Yeah. So we got the TV show. And then in 2019, it was announced. So get this. Talk about the worst idea ever. In 2019, it was announced that CBS would be adapting the film into a drama series.

[01:19:44] The series was said to be centered around Dion after Cher goes missing and is described by Deadline Hollywood as a baby pink and bisexual blue tinted tiny sunglasses wearing oat milk latte and Adderall fueled look. At what happens when the high school queen bee Cher disappears and her lifelong number two, Dion, steps into Cher's vacant Air Jordans. I feel like that sounds like some nonsense. A chat GBT would spit out. What?

[01:20:11] Or someone took hallucinogenics and was like, I've got an idea. What? So it's like pretty little liars. Veronica Mars. Clueless. Yeah, it's weird. But on August 14, 2020, it was moved to NBC Universal streaming service Peacock. And then by May 2021, it was reported that the series would not be moving forward at Peacock and instead would be redeveloping at CBS Studios. And that's where we're at. I hope this never happens.

[01:20:41] Please don't make this. Because I don't make this. No one wants this. No one wants this. And then lastly, we got a comic book series that was launched in 2017. And then Clueless the Musical opened in NYC in 2018 with Heckerling. It was written by Amy Heckerling and it starred Dove Cameron as Cher.

[01:21:07] And I remember reading some blinds about Dove Cameron losing her shit about something because she was getting the role of Cher. And I always assumed that meant they were trying to redo the movie, but it was really for this musical. So I'm like, that's fine. I don't care. But I think it closed. So it's not. I don't think it. Yeah, it closed in January 2019. So according to the script, the restaurant scenes were supposed to take place at California Pizza Kitchen.

[01:21:34] According to the script, the restaurant scenes were supposed to take place at California Pizza Kitchen. But when the CEOs of that franchise read the breadstick penis joke, they would not allow filming in their establishment. Not surprised. And then while researching for the script, Heckerling sat in on classes at Beverly Hills High to get a feel for student culture, commenting, one thing I observed was these girls in a constant state of grooming. No lies detected.

[01:22:03] I love that Paul Rudd bought everyone gifts after filming wrapped. How sweet. If I ever found out that Paul Rudd was problematic, I would be so incredibly sad. Oh, Paul Rudd was mugged. And while filming and had his backpack stolen with the script for the movie in it. Oh. At one point, Ty insults Cher by calling her a virgin who can't drive.

[01:22:30] But Murphy later confessed that at the time of filming, she was a virgin who can't drive. And during the film, there are 53 different kinds of tartan plaid used, seven of which are worn by Cher and 12 of the other by major characters. That's a lot of plaid. But I love a theme. I love, like, continuity. I think we got the gist of it. I think so, too.

[01:22:55] Well, before we get into reading, I just want to remind everybody, if you have any hot takes, any thoughts, make sure you hit us up at NoMoreLateFees on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube, and Threads. And Jackie, what is your present day rating of this film? Try it from my cold dead hand. It is a would buy it, would buy it again. I, too, would have dead hands. So it's a would buy for me as well. And please hit us a better quick drop.

[01:23:25] Drop your favorite quotable clueless lines. Have you misheard a dialogue in a movie that you believed was something else for 15 plus years until you realized via captions, because you're old, that that's not, in fact, what they are saying? 909-601-6653, twat us at the Twitters, hem us at the threads, butterfly in the sky, blue skies, and you can be featured on a future episode. I'm definitely going to tell AI to take Cher's shirt and make it with red seagulls on it.

[01:23:53] And join us next week as we hide from Debo with Craig and the crew with Friday. Taking off my jewelry now. Debo's on his way. And as always, be kind and rewind.