Cursed

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[00:00:29] Tonight we're talking werewolves, Hollywood and the fact that nobody in 2005 knew how to survive a bite without immediately making terrible decisions. So grab your silver bullets or your cake cutter because we're diving into Cursed.

[00:00:57] Welcome to the No More Late Fees Podcast. I'm Danielle. And I'm Jackie. And we're just two best friends and ex-Blockbuster employees re-watching some of the best and worst movies from the late 90s and early 2000s. And Joshua Jackson Mayhem wraps up this week with 2005's Cursed. But before we dive in, let's get into some housekeeping. We were on the same page that time. Yes, we were.

[00:01:28] If you love the podcast and you want to support us, here's how you can. If you dig what you've heard and want to treat us to a virtual cup of coffee, feel free to visit us at ko-fi.com. Slash no more late fees. Okay, Jackie, what is Cursed about? After surviving a brutal late night animal attack in Los Angeles, siblings Ellie and Jimmy Myers start noticing some very weird changes.

[00:01:58] Confidence levels are through the roof, senses are heightened, and suddenly everyone in LA looks like prey. As they race to uncover who cursed them, they get pulled into a world of werewolves, celebrity drama, and peak 2005 energy. It stars Joshua Jackson, Christina Ricci, Jesse Eisenberg, Milo Ventimiglia, Shannon Elizabeth, Maya, and Portia Dorossi.

[00:02:26] It was directed by Wes Craven, written by Kevin Williams, and you can currently watch it on Paramount+. Boo, tomatoes, tomatoes. Sorry. But before we start, let's get into our ratings rewind. So, you know the drill. Before we get into the movie, we'll reveal the rating our Y2K versions of ourselves would give, and then at the end, we'll see if our current selves agree with our initial rating. Our scale consists of would buy it, would buy it again.

[00:02:55] The best would play on repeat. Five-day rental. Would watch again. Two-day rental. Eh, okay, but nothing to write home about. And same-day rental. Trash. Straight-up trash. Okay, Jackie, what is your Y2K rating of Cursed? I have never seen this movie. Girl, me too, me too.

[00:03:19] The funny thing is, I have seen so many clips for so long that I was like, oh, okay, I know how this ends. I was wrong. I have seen zero clips. So, I went in. Completely blind? Until I did the notes. Didn't know Jesse Eisberg was in movies this early. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I think he was in some other stuff. He's been, I think he was a child actor.

[00:03:49] I know his sister is the Pepsi girl. Oh, that's right. That's right. Yeah, this cast is stacked in a way that I can't quite describe. Well, okay, but if you look at it on paper. Right. You have a Kevin Williams. Wes Craven. And Wes Craven. Like, who wouldn't want to be attached to that? Right.

[00:04:15] And then they got into it and they didn't want to be attached. Like, to the point where a bunch of people dropped out after a while because there were so many rewrites. We'll get to it. Oh, I'm very intrigued. So, here are some of my initial thoughts before we go in. Because. Okay. Just, like, random thoughts I started having. One, why are there so many horrible people attached to this movie? Like. Yes.

[00:04:44] And I mean, like, they weren't horrible back then, but now over time we've discovered. So, we have both the Weinsteins, obviously. Then Ashton Kutcher is mentioned a few times. Then you have Scott Baio. And I'm going to say Milo, as much as I loved him in certain things, I still side-eye him for dating Hayden Penetier when she was, like, underage or very young.

[00:05:14] And Portia De Rossi is married to Ellen DeGeneres, who we know is wrapped up in shit. Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, in the 2000s, it's hard not to be associated with horrible things. Right. But it's pretty bad in this movie. Yeah. Also, shout out to Maya, because I forgot she was in this movie. And it made me say, is the acting great? No, but I would have loved to see her more. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:05:44] Well, why don't you tell us about the box office for this movie? Okay. So, this movie came out February 25th, 2005. It had a budget of $35 million and made a worldwide gross of $29.6 million. So, it didn't quite make its budget back. And I'm surprised it came out in February. That's such an odd time for a horror movie. Now, I feel like you either get Halloween or you get February.

[00:06:15] No. I feel like other horror movies have come out. If they're going to come out not during spooky season, it's always like the February timeframe. But I do feel like this movie is a great summer ween movie for some reason. Yes. Like, it feels like a good summer horror movie. And I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's just because it's in Cali. But something about that, that's what I thought about. So, the opening box office at number one was Diary of a Mad Black Woman.

[00:06:44] Number two was Hitch. Number three was Constantine. Then Cursed at fourth. And Man of the House at fifth. Not the Man of the House that Jackie loves with JTT. But the Man of the House with the cheerleaders that we have covered on this podcast. As well as Hitch. So, if you want to watch it after this to cleanse the palate, you can. Man.

[00:07:10] So, one of the most talked about aspects of the film's release was its troubled production history. The movie reportedly went through extensive rewrites, reshoots, and recasting. Several werewolf effects sequences were scrapped and replaced with CGI late in production. Which sucks because I feel like the CGI does not stand the test of time. It's terrible. And we forgot to mention, Judy Greer shows up like halfway through.

[00:07:39] But she is a plot point in this movie, which I did not realize. Huge plot point, yeah. Her, spoiler alert, her transition to a werewolf, the fucking worst. It was, whoever, I'd be interested to see. Wait, if whoever did the CGI for The Scorpion King was the same people that did the CGI for this movie. Yeah. Because it felt adjacent.

[00:08:10] Well, Lil Raj, he gave this a thumb sideways. I don't even know what that means. Did he stop doing five stars? No, probably rightfully so. But the studio decided not to let critics have early access to this movie. That's always a sure thing. The screeners. The screeners. Screeners. And so, yeah, Lil Raj and Siskel both gave it a thumb sideways because they weren't able to review it before the movie came out. Gotcha. Yeah. So, Lil Raj had this to add.

[00:08:40] They felt that him and Siskel felt that the film was a missed opportunity, describing it as a mixed bag with a decent, gory, fun, but lackluster CGI. And in related criticism, a routine wank fest of effects. Wow. Wow. That's a word salad to say this movie is not good.

[00:09:06] The San Francisco Chronicle called it a third-rate effort with weak scares and cheap-looking effects. Not wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, before we get into the cast and crew, let's hear a message from our pod pals. It's Katie Hettenbach, host of Katie Afraidy.

[00:09:30] It's a horror movie review podcast where we chat with comedians Adam Rank, Anthony Jesselnik, actors Ander Tom, Jamie Kennedy, filmmakers. This is Ned and Tyler from Radio Silence. About what? Spooky movies. It's insane, right? This is the bear skull cello. We call it the skull-o. Skull-o. Skull-o. Hello. Why is the devil calling you a whore or whatever? Favorite line. Probably I could fuck your father. She's British. What is she? Is she from London? The toe scene. Are you going to tell me a second? I've heard of this Megan is Missing movie.

[00:10:00] Let's fucking go. Let's watch it. And we did it. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Especially, it's supposed to be a funny podcast. You shoot the shit. It's a silly ha-ha goofy time. Sometimes you spoil. But either way, shit's about to get spooky. So spooky. Alright, cast and crew. What do we got? Yeah. So, production stalled after 54 days of principal photography when one of the Weinsteins ordered

[00:10:28] a complete script rewrite and extensive reshoots. Iliana Douglas, Heather Lagenkamp, Scott Foley, Omar Epps, Robert Forrester, James Brolin, Corey Feldman, and Skeetle Rich filmed scenes for the original version. But the production overhauled, discarded all of the footage from the initial shoot and eliminated their characters from the revised screenplay. So, you had a black man and he gone. That's all I saw. Yep.

[00:10:56] But like, Heather Lagenkamp, like, horror royalty. Yeah. And you get rid of her? Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah, that's wild. Yeah. That's probably why they didn't make their money back. Their budget was like, fucking blown on just essentially shooting a whole new movie. Yeah, because now I'm like, what did these people do? What was the... Okay.

[00:11:26] And obviously, this film was directed by Wes Craven and written by Kevin Williamson, making their first collaboration since... It has to be the second screen movie. Because didn't he write the second one, Kevin Williamson, or no? I don't remember. I know he didn't write the third. I think he wrote the second one. Okay. And then after this, they came together one more time, I believe, for Scream 4. Because like I said, he didn't...

[00:11:55] Kevin Williamson did not come back for Scream 3. I need to check. Yes, he did write Scream 2. Yeah. Well, let's get into this movie, I guess. I love Christina Ricci so much. But my God. To see her play weak is weird to me. Yes. Because she just never...

[00:12:23] Even when she's more docile, like in Sleepy Hollow, this was just not given. It was so horrendously... I wonder if by this point, she was just exhausted and wanted to get it over with. I don't know. I don't know if it... Because that Christina spark, that energy was not there in this movie. No. And I don't... I think it is how the character's written.

[00:12:49] Because if I look at Wes Craven as an amazing director, and Christina Ricci is an amazing actress, I have to... I have to... You know... I will say that I thought Joshua Jackson was good, though. Yeah. He was definitely the best. Judy Greer just plays bitchy well. Judy Greer. Yeah. She's just Judy Greer. Like, honestly, I...

[00:13:18] When I look at it, like, as much as we love her, she is literally doing the same thing. And that's okay. We love that for her. Sure. But yeah, she was a lot... She was still a lot of fun. I was surprised by Michael Rosenbaum being in this movie. And I think that he must have been filming Smallville at this point.

[00:13:44] Because you can't tell me that that hair on his head is his hair. And that'll work. I had the same thought. I was like, oh, who gave you that rug? Yeah. It's pretty bad. And I feel like he was also wasted because he's pretty funny. Yeah. And he didn't really do or add much. And I know he would, like, he was supposed to be the decoy.

[00:14:10] Like, trying to figure out who this mysterious mystery monster is. But he was just so one note. And he would just show up and be like, hey. And I'm like... What's good? Yeah. Yeah. It's good. No, it was bad. I don't know who thought he was a decoy. And then, randomly, Shannon Elizabeth is there. And then I was like... This is...

[00:14:36] I feel like this is Kevin Williamson trying to do the scream effect. Like, the Drew Barrymore... Yeah. Like, there's always an opening. Big actress that immediately gets killed. Yeah. I think that's what he was reaching for. It just didn't have the same impact. Right. Because she doesn't get killed in the beginning. No. There's so much stuff that happens afterwards. And then it's like, maybe a few things then she does. And then she's like... I don't know. There's just... It was too much going on.

[00:15:07] Yeah. And then... I'm sorry. Portia de Rossi has... Has the glimmer? With that Party City fortune teller costume? Like, not for one second was I believing she had the gift. No. No sight in. It was weird. So, the movie starts off with some sort of carnival, question mark. I'm not sure. Boardwalk? I don't know. I don't know what's happening.

[00:15:37] There were a lot of very grandiose sets. Yes. For no fucking reason in this movie. So, I'm thinking, oh, there's going to be like some more scenes back at whatever carnival this is. And so, you see two women, Maya and Shannon Elizabeth, going to a fortune teller. Mainly because Shannon Elizabeth's character, Becky, is... She likes some guy. She met some guy.

[00:16:06] And Jenny is really enthusiastic about finding out if this guy is the one for her. And as soon as the fortune teller takes their hands, all of a sudden she sees danger and is the mark of the beast. And she's freaking the hell out. And then the girls are really rude to her because I'm like, wait, what'd you tell me? Yeah. You know, you were fine for her to tell you about your love life. But now she's like irrelevant and crazy. But okay.

[00:16:35] After they're leaving the fortune teller, Jenny like leaves. Becky kind of is still cussing out the lady. And by the time she turns around, she doesn't know where Jenny is. And quite frankly, they don't give us any other information. You just see Becky looking over the water, looking for her everywhere. It's just random. And then we don't see them again till later. And it's not them together. We just see Becky driving separately.

[00:17:04] And we don't know if it's the same day or a different day. Right. I think it's a different day. Yeah. And then we see that we're introduced to Ellie and Jimmy, played by Christina Ricci and Jesse Eisenberg. Their siblings, whose parents had passed away. So they're kind of just trying to make do the best they can. Ellie works for the Craig Kilbourne show. And that was a, was that not a flashback?

[00:17:33] Oh, I was like, I forgot about you, sir. Yeah. Yeah. And so they're driving home and they're kind of arguing and not really paying attention. Well, we, I think we skipped something. So the scene right after this is when we meet Jimmy separately. So Jimmy is with his dog and he's on Hollywood Boulevard. Zipper. Zipper. His dog is Zipper. And they, he goes into the store.

[00:18:00] I don't know what he's looking for, but then his bullies arrive, played by Milo and two other kids. I don't know. Yeah. And what I, you know what I got mad about in this scene? What? That bitch ass dog. You got people bullying me and you go, and back away like Homer Simpson into the bush. That, you're supposed to be my best friend dog. Yeah.

[00:18:30] And you can't do a grrrr. Nothing. You, and it's not even like. But then you bite me later. Right. And here's the other thing. It's not even like, it's not even like, oh, the dog didn't read the situation. He's a happy, sweet dog. So it's not like he's just, you know, sometimes people come in and you're like, you didn't even bark. You just laughing and licking somebody or whatever. He didn't even do that.

[00:18:56] He knew the situation and was like, oh, what the hell, though? Your big ass can't even do a bark? I was annoyed by that. Milo plays Bo and Jimmy's having a moment with the girl at the store, Brooke. Brooke, yeah. Who is Bo's girlfriend. And she's like, you just have to ignore him. Girl, why are you with him if you know this is how he is?

[00:19:24] So he tells her, oh, he says, hey, Brooke. And she's like, do I know you? And he's like, I've been sitting behind you for years now. Yeah. We have literally our names, our last names are a letter apart, maybe. And she's like, are you sure? Typical. Nice dog, though. Yeah. So he gets bullied and he leaves eventually. And he calls his sister.

[00:19:52] He's trying to find her because she's supposed to pick him up. But she is at some, I don't know what this, what I thought of was like a wax museum, but it's not a wax museum. The best I could glean is that Jake, played by Joshua Jackson, is dating Ellie. And he is in charge of, like, I guess he's like, it felt like a pop-up club. Yeah.

[00:20:19] But what, and it was called Tinsel, so I'm like, because towards the end we get like a view of what this club is on opening night. And it was real weird because we have like a hall of mirrors. Right. Well, like in a fun house way where like it's a mirror maze. Right. But then we also have like these different spaces. One is all like horror themed.

[00:20:49] So there's like the wolf man and Frankenstein's monster and all of that stuff. But then there's also this room of like Madame Tussauds wax figures of like, it's called the Diva Room. And really poorly done mannequins of like Cher and all of Slain Dion and these pop icons.

[00:21:13] It was, I know in Jake's mind he was out here like doing something real special. But I was just real confused the whole time. Yeah. Yeah. And we were also very confused by Jake as a whole. Because you've got Ellie who's sprung over him. She just pops by. She wants to see him. And he's like, I'm just need some rest. Like he's like, I'm not going to the show.

[00:21:41] And so automatically in my brain was like, oh, he's a werewolf. Because clearly there's going to have to be some sort of full moon during this thing. That's why he's like, I need some rest. Right. And so Ellie feels kind of dejected. And he's like, I just need kind of some space. That's the worst thing to hear. Yeah. So like he's supposed to be some like big celebrity. I don't know what he is. Because everyone be throwing themselves at him. Yeah.

[00:22:06] But we find out later that when you're a werewolf, spoiler alert, he's a werewolf. You have like, you're very charismatic and irresistible to ladies and men. So yeah. And that's when she leaves and she goes to pick up Jimmy. And now they're driving home. Not Jimmy. Sorry. What's the brother's name? Jimmy. Oh, my bad. You got her right this time. Oh. But what's the boy? Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:22:36] How quickly it all went away. I wanted to know how many times the name Jimmy is said in this movie. Because Ellie's just like, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy. I was like, stop with the Jimmy. And if you've ever watched South Park, there is a character on there named Jimmy. And they say his name a lot. And so it just brought me flashbacks of South Park. So then I couldn't take Ellie seriously yelling Jimmy all the time. Anywho.

[00:23:06] So this is where they're driving home. Yeah. She had picked up Jimmy and he's complaining. And she's like, if you had friends, I wouldn't have to come pick you up. Ugh. Yeah. Because like the glow up they try to give Jesse Eisenberg in this movie. Oh my God. Oh my God. It's like they just do his hair and they're like, this is not enough. It's spiky and all over the place.

[00:23:34] Because he's cool because he has the mark of the beast. Girl. I was like, ooh, we got to talk about this. Yes. And then for Ellie, they just like curl her hair and put her in pastels. That's her glow up. Yeah. It's not good. They ran out of budget by the time the glow ups happened. Yeah.

[00:24:01] Because like they do try to frump down Christina Ricci in this movie. But it doesn't work because we have seen her so many times with straight black hair in an all black wardrobe. We're like, yes, that's Christina Ricci. Right. Like, what do you want us to do with this information? And then when she's sexy, it's like they just give her hair a little curl and put her in like a pink blazer. The blazer.

[00:24:28] All they had to do was do the typical tie back her hair and put some glasses on. Yeah. And we would have been like, oh, she looks beautiful now. Beautiful now. So they're driving home. For me, it was unclear if like they caused the accident, if the werewolf just caused the accident. But somehow they collide with Shannon and Elizabeth's car. Yeah.

[00:24:52] I went to go get some juice and when I came back, there was an accident. I was like, so I wasn't sure whose car fell over the cliff and whose car until I was like, oh, okay. Then who the hell did they hit? And then I was like, oh, the werewolf is who they hit. And I just made up stuff in my mind. So somehow there was swerving and a dog in the road and Shannon and Elizabeth's car ends up rolling.

[00:25:24] She's stuck upside down. Ellie's trying to help her. They finally get her like to a point where they can get her free. And oh, oh, there's this big giant dog that grabs her and takes her off into the woods. And they're like, oh, no. But what I missed was when were they bit? Okay. So there was a lot of dumbass decisions made. Oh, 100%.

[00:25:50] So Ellie went down to go check on the girl. And her brother was left to make a call. And he's trying to call 911. He moves around. They can't hear him. And he finally moves to a spot where they can't hear him. And then he then moves again, which I'm like, you are in a spot. They can hear you. Why are you moving? So that irritated me. She goes down there to help the girl.

[00:26:18] And she's trying to unhook her. Becky is losing her shit. As she should be. She just, her car just got flung over a cliff. Like that's, I'm not even mad at her. She then asked her, asked Becky if she has a jack. And she's like, yeah, in the trunk. The car is flipped on top of itself. Yeah. How do you think you're going to get to the trunk? And what are we doing with a jack? Exactly. Exactly.

[00:26:47] Like, you're not going to jack the car enough to flip it back over. You're not going to use a jack in any way to get Becky out of her seatbelt. Like, what are we using the jack for? We don't. I don't know. And so this is the beginning of Christina. Here's a woo. Christina. Here's a who. Because that's what happens this whole effing movie. It's a lot of noises. And her going.

[00:27:17] It is. It's noises and flinging of bodies. That's all this movie is. So she is hearing noises that are not Becky flailing. Finally, old boy comes down. Jimmy comes down to help. Suddenly they're able to get her out and unhook her from the seatbelt or whatever.

[00:27:42] And so when she comes down and she's trying to maneuver, by the way, they do this scene and they give Shannon and Elizabeth this halter top with obviously probably not a bra. And I'm like, any moment this girl's T-tals are going to fall out. Yeah. It's really ridiculous. But okay. Okay. No problem.

[00:28:06] As she's trying to maneuver herself, all of a sudden this werewolf comes and bites her neck and starts pulling her out. Jimmy decides to grab her legs to try to get her. And then he asks his sister to anchor his legs. And your sister ain't nothing but a drop of water. Y'all are both skin and bones. What are we talking about? So of course the werewolf is flailing them.

[00:28:33] And at some point the werewolf does, I think she scrapes Jimmy. But I don't know how when the sister's at the end flanking that the werewolf bites her. But somehow it happens. They're fucked up. I feel like Jimmy has scratches deep on his chest. I do remember a bandage on his chest. And she has one on her wrist. Yeah. They do show the scrapes on Jimmy's chest.

[00:29:03] So when the paramedics come, Jimmy gets his statement. Huh? Did you notice who the officer was? Yes. Ron. From Parks and Rec. Offerman. Nick Offerman. Offerman played the police officer, which was, I'm like, is that you, Ron Swanson? I love to see him. So Jimmy, of course, is like, it was a fucking werewolf. And nobody.

[00:29:31] Jimmy is ten tones down immediately like, that shit was a werewolf. I'm going to go home and research because I know what I saw. And everyone else is like, what are you talking about? Mythical Animals. He's like, I know what I saw. And his sister, by the flip side, is like, I didn't see anything. So I can't even corroborate this story. So Jimmy's pretty pissed. They are the police and everybody released them.

[00:30:00] They're going home. And Zipper is not vibing at all with Jimmy. And bites Jimmy. So that is like another clue. They get home. And this is when Jimmy goes upstairs and we have, what's her name? Ellie. Oh, sorry. And we have Ellie just like hearing the whooshes and the noises.

[00:30:30] And she, at some point, it's like she comes down in the middle of the night and she's looking around. And then all of a sudden, here comes Jake saying, I need to talk to you and all this stuff. And she's like, how did you get in the house? And of course, we find out it's a dream. She's dreaming all of this. So, and in the morning when they wake up, Jimmy is in the, he's butt naked in the bushes at the bottom of the house.

[00:30:56] I was like, oh, I didn't need to see Jesse Eisenberg, Heiney. So he now believes that he's a werewolf. But his sister is not, she's ignoring that shit. I love how he tries to bring it up to her after he does all his research. And she's like, see this picture frame right here? I bought it at Tiffany's. And it is sterling silver. Could I hold it if I were a werewolf? I was like, hold on.

[00:31:27] So your parents die. And you go out and buy a sterling silver picture frame from Tiffany. When you have to support your younger brother and try and keep a roof, like how much is Craig Kilbourne paying you? And I just looked it up. A seven by nine picture frame from Tiffany is $1,450. How much was it in 2005 though? Let me look.

[00:31:56] Well, yeah, it is kind of ridiculous. But he bullies her when he, because he tries to tell her that, yeah, werewolves and whatnot. He goes to school. She goes to work. And at work, she, we meet her co-worker slash friend played by Michael Rosenbaum. And this is when we find out.

[00:32:18] I think at some point we had, I feel like at work is not the first time that we meet Judy Greer's character. Which for some reason is not on this screen shot. What's her character's name? Judy, Julie, Joni. Yeah. Joni loves Chachi. That would have been, that's hilarious if her name was Joni. Hold on.

[00:32:48] Let me find it. Joni. It is Joni. That's funny. She's a, so Joni is played by Judy Greer. She is a publicist. And so she shows up at the show because clearly she's trying to get her actors, whoever she represents, on the Craig Kilbourne Late Late Night Show.

[00:33:16] And everybody's like, oh God, she's a nightmare. She's annoying. Or whatever. But she also brings up Jake. And how, you know, everybody's been there, done that with Jake to kind of make Ellie insecure. Yeah. Essentially. That frame would have been $850 in 2005. Still a pretty penny. Yeah.

[00:33:45] And at this point, Ellie is sniffing around the office because she smells something really good. And it turns out it's her co-worker played by Michelle Krzyk, who I love from the movie Saving Face. She finds her with a bloody nose. Like, first of all, if you have a bloody nose, why would you be in the kitchen? I think that's kind of gross. Why wouldn't you go to the bathroom? But whatever. And instead of being, like, alarmed that I could smell blood from a mile away, she just keeps trucking Matt, Ellie.

[00:34:16] She is in great denial. She has to grind to take care of her brother. So, no time for werewolf tendencies. But Jimmy, on the other hand, he's now, like, at PE. Bo is on the wrestling team and, like, mouthing off. And Jimmy's, like, bet. And Bo's, like, well, come out here and wrestle me. Let's do this. Blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah. And Jimmy is doing, like, fucking pile drivers.

[00:34:46] And the coach is just, like, oh, damn. I was, like, I don't think those are, like, legally sanctioned. Like, someone is going to end up paralyzed with the shit Jimmy is doing to these people. It's, like, I don't know a lot about wrestling, but I thought that that stuff is WWE wrestling. That's what it was giving. Yeah. But Jimmy is just, like, ah, ah, let's do this. With his new spiky hair.

[00:35:14] But Bo has taken notice. Yes. Bo has found it erotic. Oh, yeah. Because he also, because Bo keeps calling him derogatory names, but, and then also calls him gay in a derogatory manner. And just, it's, like, constantly harping on that. Yeah.

[00:35:37] And so, in this fight scene, that's when Jimmy's, like, you know, you're real obsessed with gay, calling people gay. And I feel like you're just suppressing. Yeah. You're projecting your own feelings. And so, that hit a chord that we find out later. Along with Jimmy's new pheromones. Yes. Yes. His new pheromones. So, Ellie.

[00:36:07] I don't know where Ellie is at this point, but I know Jimmy is at home at some point. About to eat just a raw steak. Yeah. Yeah. His dog is not, it was, like, hiding in a corn, but watching him with that steak. He's also, there's, a lot of the storytelling is pushed forward by people seeing clips on the news about the animal attacks. Yeah.

[00:36:36] Which is odd, because, oh, there's a party. Joanie tells Ellie she has to go to this wild animal costume party. I don't know what it is, but people are dressed in costumes, including Maya, who's dressed like a cat or a tiger or something. I don't know, leopard? Yeah. Something. Something. And then she sees Jimmy, because I think this is, is it at his club? I don't know where this is at. Maybe another club. I think. Unclear. It is unclear.

[00:37:06] And Jimmy's acting weird again. And at this point, she sees all these people, all these girls, like, fawning all over, not Jimmy, sorry. Jake. Jake. Jake is acting weird, and she sees so many people, like, these women all over him. And Joanie has popped up as she's talking to Jake, and she kind of insinuates yet again that Jake is out there philandering. Yeah.

[00:37:34] She leaves Jake to go meet the horrible Scott Baio playing himself in this movie. Ugh. And so she's also watching from afar, and Scott Baio is hitting on her, which it's crazy because it's so on point to who he is in real life. Yeah. So she leaves Chachi by himself, and she tells Jake, you know what, it's her turn.

[00:38:01] She needs a break from him because he's acting fucking weird. And he's, like, with everybody. And I did get annoyed by Maya's character at this point because she is fawning all over Jake and just being kind of rude. First and foremost, this was the guy your friend liked, and she's talking about her friend. But at the same time, she's touching on his body. Yeah. So that was weird.

[00:38:28] But she goes out to the parking lot, and that's when all of a sudden we have more whoosh. Ooh. What's that? What's going on? Rawr. Who's in the parking lot? Just noises. And they, the werewolf attacks her so violently. They throw her on a car, and poor Jenny, and she's running for life. Somehow she gets trapped in the elevator.

[00:38:58] She does smart things when she tries to, like, climb up. But that point where she tries to stick her head out, and it gave me Scream 1 vibes with Rose McGowan trying to crawl out of the garage door. So, yeah. So, yeah. But, alas, no more Jenny. Yeah. Jenny gets slaughtered. Jenny gone. RIP. She don't make it. Where are we then?

[00:39:25] Oh, so, at some point, Jimmy's making himself a raw steak. And he hears some whooshing. And so he goes to investigate, and he comes back, and Zipper has taken the steak. And instead of just chugging it up to an owl. No? No. He hears some noises, and it turns out that Bo is at the door. That's right. So he comes outside. Yeah. He comes outside, and now Bo has come out to him.

[00:39:51] And thinks that Jimmy, too, is gay and tries to kiss him. And he's like, no, no, it's just my pheromones because I'm a werewolf. Yeah. It is so free with just telling people. Yeah. Because the other thing we forgot to say is that on their palms is like five points that make up a pentagram. So that's the mark of the beast that the fortune teller was alluding to at the beginning.

[00:40:20] And so he's like, look, mark of the beast. It's like, what? And Bo is just like, okay. Sure, bud. Yeah. He's just like, whatever. So Jimmy finally, like, he thinks gets rid of Bo. Bo's not actually gone. But closes the door, goes back. Zipper has stolen the steak. Like, instead of just being like, it's an L. Zipper got it.

[00:40:46] He's like, going to try and fight a dog over this raw steak. Well, also because Zipper shouldn't eat a raw steak. I don't think dogs are supposed to. I don't know. They can't. Can they eat? They can't. I mean, in the wild, they eat. What dogs are wild? Wolves? I don't know. I just thought a domesticated dog, it would hurt their bellies. I think it's fine. Okay. Well, anywho.

[00:41:14] Yes, he's trying to steal meat from the dog. And Zipper turns around. And he's not Zipper anymore. He's like this Franken dog werewolf that starts, like, attacking Jimmy. Jimmy locks him in the kitchen. Zipper's, like, body checking the door, breaking it down, trying to get through. And so Jimmy's like, oh, fuck. Runs outside. Bo's still hanging around. He's like, we got to go.

[00:41:43] My dog's a werewolf now. He's trying to kill me. And so they both just hop in Bo's car and take off. The dog, I would have been so mad. Your fucking dog just scratched up, dented my car. Yeah. Like crazy. But nobody's concerned that, yes, you guys got away, but you have a werewolf dog running around. Just roaming now. Yeah. And so they're now going to the premiere of what? I don't know. The club?

[00:42:13] I don't know. But they're going to Jake's club to go find Ellie. Ellie has her own situation because Jake has now found her in the parking lot, scared her. And it says- Oh, but we missed a part where Ellie- Where Craig Kilbourne cuts his finger. Oh, yeah. She comes into work like- Right. Because Jimmy went to school all rizzed out.

[00:42:38] And she goes to work with a lavender see-through-ish blouse. And all of a sudden she hot shit. Yeah. And so Craig Kilbourne cuts himself. And she's like, I need a tissue. And the man's like, okay, just stand there. She asked for a tissue. She's waiting for someone to get it. Calm down, Craig Kilbourne. But then because he's pressuring her, she just sucks on his finger? Is there a question mark?

[00:43:07] And I think Craig liked it. A lot. He did a double take. And there was another girl on set just like, okay. And then she starts, I want to say, having period cramps because girl, what you doing in the bathroom? Or what's happening? Because she was like doing it. Like her body was reacting to the blood and like trying to transition.

[00:43:29] So she goes in, locks her, like she washes her face, but then she sees her face start to change or like her pupils start changing colors. And so she goes to try and lock herself in a stall. But here comes her pal checking on her, which is nice. But how many times does she have to say, leave me alone? Don't open this door. And then she crushes a metal door with her fingertips. And you're still going to go in? Yeah.

[00:43:59] I was annoyed. I'm just glad she didn't get hurt. Yeah. And then, so the friend spins her around and you see her face doing all sorts of wobbliness because it's trying to transition because of the Craig Kilborn's finger blood. And so that's when she gets really upset and she goes to try and find Jimmy. Does she go to talk to, it's all very confusing. She's just trying to find Jimmy.

[00:44:27] Maybe she goes home and Jimmy's not home. I don't know how she assumes that Jimmy's not the clothes. But she changes. Yeah. And her clothes at some point. And that's when she sees Jake. And Jake breaks the window. He's trying to tell her he needs to talk to her. And when he like bangs on the window, she can see the mark of the beast on his hand. So she knows. He says he's born with it. Yeah. And she calls him out on it.

[00:44:57] And he's like, I'm born with it. I can like teach you how to control it. But we have to find like, I didn't do this to you. We have to find the werewolf that did. I'm trying to figure out who it is. It just needs a scene with him with his hand against the window. And it just says, maybe he's born with it. Wolverine. But he scares her. So she's out. Yeah. Well, he takes the keys out of the ignition. And it's like, you're going to listen to me.

[00:45:26] And she's like, not until you give me my keys back. And then she like. She puts it between her fingers and stabs him. And then she leaves. And at this point, Jimmy is calling her phone using Bo's phone to say, hey, I'm at the premiere. Yeah. And she says, stay away from Jake. Yes. And Jake gets to the premiere pretty fast because he's trying to talk to Jimmy to try to find out where Ellie is. Yeah. And Ellie gets there.

[00:45:53] My favorite part of this whole scene is that randomly the people coming through, Lance Bass just walks. There he is. So now it's just like this chase scene. Michael Rosenbaum shows up like, have you seen Craig Kilbourne? He asked like five times if she's seen Craig Kilbourne. We get through the hall of mirrors. She finds Jimmy. But now they're like in this mirror maze.

[00:46:21] And then a werewolf shows up, starts chasing them. And everyone's like fleeing the. Jimmy goes to a police officer or a security guard. Yeah. No, it's actually Ellie. And she's like, you've got to get everybody out of there, out of here. And he goes, why? And then boom, here comes the werewolf. And he's like, what the hell? And then you just see him flung like a baby doll. Yes.

[00:46:50] Across the room. There's a lot of body flinging. Um, get everyone out and do like the roll down cage, like at the mall. Barely made it under that cage. She did. Well, because she's like, she got out, but she's like, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy. And then at the last minute, she rolls back under to go back inside to find Jimmy. Bo has been knocked out by the werewolf. Cast aside.

[00:47:21] Yeah. Michael Rosenbaum is still in there. And so Jimmy comes around. They're talking to Michael Rosenbaum. And they're like, show us your palms. Like, that's how you proved to us you were not a werewolf. And he just shows one palm. And she's like, the other, please. And he's like, we don't have time for this. And then he just gets yeeted up by his head. Yeah. But they don't even see that. I don't know why they turn. Again, whooshes and noises. Yeah.

[00:47:48] They get stuck in the Hall of Mirrors at one point because Jake is trying to talk to Ellie. This is before all this stuff happened. And finally, it's revealed that the werewolf is actually. Judy Greer. Joanie. Joanie. Yeah. And she wants Jake to herself. That she's been getting rid of Jake. The competition for Jake. And Jake had no idea this was happening. And my feet. Crack up sometimes. I swear.

[00:48:18] So they're like fighting. Ellie is weak to every step of the way. Like, girl, you got the mark of the beast. Why aren't you like. Because she hasn't fully changed yet. But she should have some strength. And she shows it a little bit. But it's bad. I mean, Jimmy's doing pile drivers. And girl, you can't even just like pick up a sword. Like, what's going on? It's so ridiculous. And then when the popo comes.

[00:48:46] When Joanie, as in her werewolf form. Because we do see that transformation. And it is horrifically horrible. Well, and her whole thing is. She had hooked up with Jake. Yes. And she got a little rough. A little rough and tumble. And so she got some of that blood. And so it changed her. But I think Jake didn't know that. That happened to her.

[00:49:15] Yeah, he didn't know. And so now her goal is to just eradicate any competition. Yeah. So that she and Jake could be together forever. And I feel like this entire movie is an allegory for STDs. Yes. Dicks with you. It does. So when she's in her form and the cops come, they're finally looking for the animal. Right?

[00:49:43] I love how in her state she goes, shit. Like, they're going to catch her. She does it twice. And I was crying. Like, this is. Like, they had to have the intention that this movie was going to be campy and just funny. Yeah. It had to be. It could not have been serious. Because nothing about this movie was ever scary. Yeah. Not a damn.

[00:50:13] Like I said, it was whooshes. Not scary. And then just people being flung about. There was never a sense of, like, even when they were being chased by the werewolf. I'm like, okay. Like, yeah. There was no heightened sense of urgency. Because we're not emotionally invested in these characters at all. We don't care. But I have to ask our listeners, comment and let us know if you saw this back in the 2000s. And you were actually scared.

[00:50:41] And it's just because over time we're watching it with fresh eyes that it's not scary. Because I would love to know. Oh, boy. So the cops shoot Joanie. And so you think she's dead. She does that same scream thing where the killer gets up and they shoot her again. So then Ellie and Jimmy and Bo, they leave. They go home.

[00:51:10] But then we see what they don't see is that Joanie is gone. And she escapes because the guys comes back. It's like, she's huge. It's huge. And she's actually, actually, I don't know if she escapes. She's just naked. Like, you see her human body. So that happens. And so then we go back to the house. And Joanie, more whooshes and sounds and shit. And then we find out that Jake is in the house.

[00:51:39] Because they're trying, they have no electricity. The dog has fucked up the house. They're trying to get things back in order. And the thing she does after coming home from this very traumatic night is she's like, I got to sweep up the kitchen. Well, you know, some people would handle trauma that way. My mother would. You don't think after that I wouldn't be sweeping? I'd be like, I'm going to lay down. I got to clean this kitchen, girl. I can't sleep. I'm not staying in this house.

[00:52:08] I'm going to go get a hotel where no one knows where I am. And I'm sleeping. But yeah, she's cleaning. And Jimmy is downstairs in the basement trying to get the lights on. And then Jake comes in. And now we now, now we realize that Jake is actually the villain. He wants him and Ellie to be together. He wants to have her as his life partner. But fuck Jimmy. He doesn't need. There's only one alpha male. Right.

[00:52:37] So he's like willing to kill her brother. You think the girl's going to come your way? Oh, not a good selling point. Sorry. And he's like, we can make this work. And so she's kind of having to fight him. I think he does a great job as a villain. I don't love when men are like actually trying to choke and beat women in movies. It just, it's not a hot vibe for me. So I had to look away a few times.

[00:53:03] So she eventually finds, I guess, her parents' anniversary cake cutter that's made of sterling silver. Jimmy learns that he could climb walls like Spider-Man. There's a lot of Spider-Man references, I feel like, in his character. I was confused. I'm like, okay, is this something werewolves usually have the ability to do? I don't know. But they're able to do a one-two punch and actually kill Jake.

[00:53:32] And he burns up in flames and dies. And they watch from the kitchen. And they feel themselves returning to normal. Because the whole thing is like you have to kill the main werewolf. Yeah, where you go. I think if they had killed Judy Greer's character, they would have been fine. Because that's where their lines stem from. I'm not sure. But they're fine after Jake dies.

[00:54:02] And then here comes Bo and Brooke. Brooke found the dog wandering the streets. But he's fine now. And they are in like with each other. And he's like, how did you know to come find me? And he's like, Bo brought me. And Bo, his coming out was a speed run. Yeah. And then Bo's just like, we're best friends now. Here, have my ex-girlfriend.

[00:54:31] Now that you know I'm gay. I kind of shipped Bo and Jimmy. I'll be honest. Me too. I kind of was like, I wish Jimmy was gay. Because this would have been a really sweet meet cute. It was. Yeah. In my mind, Brooke was never there. It was always Bo and Jimmy. Yeah. Yeah. So Ellie stands behind. And she's like, I'll be fine. I'll be cleaning. And go have fun, you kids. And that's cursed. That's cursed.

[00:55:01] Oh, boy. Yeah. Like we said, production on the movie lasted for more than two years due to extensive rewrites, reshoots, and cast changes, including more than 90 page of the original script, which was reportedly rewritten during production. That's the whole script. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. In 2014, Judy Greer spoke on the film in an interview.

[00:55:28] And she stated that, I don't know why that movie got so fucked up. I don't understand it. I thought the script was fine. Honest to God, I didn't get the big deal. I don't know who kept making them fuck with it. She goes on to say, then we shot the movie for like seven years. I think they had. And they said, we had four movies worth of footage. It was so fun, but so weird. I don't get it. I couldn't figure it out. And that's when I was putting this together.

[00:55:58] I was like, Judy Greer is listed so far down in the cast. I'm like, why does she have such hard opinions about this movie? And even watching the movie for the first two thirds, you're like, oh, she's just like the casting or the agent for Scott Bale. Like she doesn't even have a big role. Why is she so like down about like this production? Then you get to the final act and you're like, oh, because she is the werewolf.

[00:56:28] Got it. Understood. And for me, all the clips I ever saw was of her doing this and yes. And being the werewolf. So I always thought this was the end scene. So watching this and finding out that it's actually Jake, that's really the villain. Yeah. That I was glad to be surprised because I was like, oh, I didn't see that coming. Okay, good.

[00:56:54] The movie was originally planned as a darker horror film before studio requested edits shifted the tone and rating. I think that's why it felt so. Yeah. Like they either had to lean hard and make it like real gory and like real horror or they needed to swing the complete opposite way and do heavy camp. And it kind of just that pendulum just stopped right in the middle. And we're like, what is this?

[00:57:22] In 2008, Wes Craven, he was quoted saying that cursed experience was so screwed up. I mean, that went on for two and a half years of my life for a film that wasn't anything close to what it should have been. And another film that I was about to shoot having the plug pulled called Pulse. So it was like I did learn from the cursed experience not to do something for money. They said, we know you want to do another film. We'll pay you double. And we were 10 days from shooting. And I said, fine.

[00:57:52] But I ended up working two and a half years for double my fee. But I could have done two and a half movies and done movies that were out there making money. In general, I think it's not worth it. And part of the reason my phone hasn't rung is that that story is pretty well known. Damn. Oh, Russ Craven.

[00:58:15] And then during filming, Christina Ricci wore colored contacts during portions of filming to reflect Ellie's transformation. I'm trying to see something real quick. Okay, sorry. Sorry. They originally featured practical werewolf effects created by legendary makeup artist Rick Baker, most of which were replaced with CGI.

[00:58:45] I mean, I think I don't. I obviously don't have this DVD, but I want to know if they ever just. It would be cool to take the original foot. Like, wouldn't it be so cool to see a movie that they took the original footage and they edited it and released it now? That I think it would be cool.

[00:59:07] And because, like Wes Craven said, this movie was originally supposed to come out in August, on August 8th, 2003. And it finally came out two years later, or a year and a half later, February 25th, 2005. And the nightclub sequence features the song Little Sister by Queens of the Stone Age. Okay. I remember those guys.

[00:59:37] One thing that I thought was kind of cool was that, obviously, Kevin Williamson was the creator-writer of Dawson's Creek. And this is the second film that he collaborated with or had one of the people from Dawson's Creek star in. The first one was Teaching Mrs. Tingle with Katie Holmes. And then he did this one with Joshua Jackson, which made me curious if he did any other movies with the other cast members. But I don't think so.

[01:00:04] Which is interesting because what I was reading about the original script and original shooting was that Skeet Ulrich was the love interest. Oh. And then because of all the rewrites and production shit, he left the project and that's when Joshua Jackson stepped in. Gotcha. Gotcha. In one of his interviews that he does for this movie, he looks so handsome.

[01:00:34] He's in a black v-neck sweater and his hair is grown out a little bit. So there's like a little flip at the back and I'm like... Hey, JJ. How you doing? Yeah. Never gets old. Okay. Well, before we get into our present day rating, just a reminder, you guys, hit us up at NoMoreLateFees on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube threads.

[01:01:03] Let us know. We had a few questions during this episode. If you have answers, make sure you comment. Even on our Spotify, you can make a comment there too. So let us know. And Jackie, now that we've watched the movie, how do you feel? What's your rating for it, essentially? I don't feel great. It's the same day for me, dog. So we all know that you're more horror and I'm more horror-like. So I could watch this again.

[01:01:34] I feel like I'd have a bus just laughing. So I'm going to give it a two-day rating. Okay. Fair enough. Because it's not too scary for me. And Joshua Jackson is in it. I'm so sad. This is over. I know. I'm sorry. We still have movies with him in it to do. It's just that dedicated month. Yeah, that's true.

[01:01:58] Well, if you want to add to the conversation, hit us up at our Quick Drop, 909-601-6653. You can call, leave a voice message, or text us at that number and you could be featured on a future episode. And join us next week where we're covering the object of my affection. Jennifer Aniston, Paul Rudd. Paul Rudd's gay what? Best friends turned lovers, maybe. Confusion, essentially.

[01:02:28] A lot of confusion. And as always, be kind and rewind. Ow! You always surprise me, too. There's a lot of howling in this movie. Unnecessary howling. A lot of dogs. A woof, woof, woof. A woof, woof. In news.